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Forums - Computer music & technology
Subject: ORION
Original Message Date: 15-Nov-00 @ 01:13 PM - ORION
hey, they just sent me a review copy! - anyone interested ???
Message 21/45 25-Nov-00 @ 12:16 AM - RE: ORION
whoah!!!!!... man it works in realtime !!.. and records the midi playing SPOT-ON!!!!.. i dont beleive it...
been getting more into orion today and it's really rockin', in fact seriously i wrote the authors and suggested they put UP the price to 200 bucks... the low price might make people overlook it as some semi-serious little app'... wrongo!... i been discovering some new amazing stuff today...
1. it plays in realtime from my keyboard ! and also records those patterns as i play & listen
2. it flips on the fly between pattern & song mode to adjust controllers locally to patterns or song-based across a long peice of the whole song
3. the synths sound fucking amazingly realistic as old analogs crisp as anything...
4. when i right click on ANY controller for the synth panel (on a per-pattern basis) it opens the contrller edit window which looks like just the lower CC edit window in vst/logic/cake
5. I can access the WHOLE list of contrllers and parameters for each synth while in piano edit...
6. it's got this nifty way to show velocity as 'transparency'... the more a note is loud in velocity, the lighter or more opaque the note becomes... SUPERB!!!.. it's the ONLY sequencer that shows CLEARLY note velocity IN THE PATTERN ITSELF!!!... awesome..
7. there is also a fixed always-on 'slide' row under the piano grid to add 303-slide type control to the pattern on a step basis the resolution of which is set in the grid quantise setup !
8. 'Patterns' can be any length and carry unique controller & synth setting parameters... you can have a synth patterns say 4 bars long with synth parameters changing within the pattern, then over record some synth controller moves accorss 32 bars (the pattern x 8) !!!... double layer control !!
9. the clock is spot on.. very hardware sounding...
oh well.. i made a really nice bass-line arp today and it sounds like something from an old Human league album, nice sound... the streaming worked 100% and DID add all fx & control moves to the audio file
next tests are to export & import midifiles and see how they play, and to also play outboard from the sequencer with internal sounds to make a mix... also gotta see if there is any way to route audio outboard into the mix, cos if it had that and you could add realtime fx then this programme would actually be probably preferable to the big 3 sequencers for most dance music usage.. remember it is supposed to also take dx & vst fx & instruments which i'm gonnna try next...
it did occur to me that orion is mebbe an alternative to 'Reason' and so far it's looking bloody good
interestingly now that 'Reason' is out, steinberg are co-incidently NO longer handling propellorheads distribution... hmm.... it's a good time for alternative programmes not laden down with bloatware.. score edit anyone??...
been getting more into orion today and it's really rockin', in fact seriously i wrote the authors and suggested they put UP the price to 200 bucks... the low price might make people overlook it as some semi-serious little app'... wrongo!... i been discovering some new amazing stuff today...
1. it plays in realtime from my keyboard ! and also records those patterns as i play & listen
2. it flips on the fly between pattern & song mode to adjust controllers locally to patterns or song-based across a long peice of the whole song
3. the synths sound fucking amazingly realistic as old analogs crisp as anything...
4. when i right click on ANY controller for the synth panel (on a per-pattern basis) it opens the contrller edit window which looks like just the lower CC edit window in vst/logic/cake
5. I can access the WHOLE list of contrllers and parameters for each synth while in piano edit...
6. it's got this nifty way to show velocity as 'transparency'... the more a note is loud in velocity, the lighter or more opaque the note becomes... SUPERB!!!.. it's the ONLY sequencer that shows CLEARLY note velocity IN THE PATTERN ITSELF!!!... awesome..
7. there is also a fixed always-on 'slide' row under the piano grid to add 303-slide type control to the pattern on a step basis the resolution of which is set in the grid quantise setup !
8. 'Patterns' can be any length and carry unique controller & synth setting parameters... you can have a synth patterns say 4 bars long with synth parameters changing within the pattern, then over record some synth controller moves accorss 32 bars (the pattern x 8) !!!... double layer control !!
9. the clock is spot on.. very hardware sounding...
oh well.. i made a really nice bass-line arp today and it sounds like something from an old Human league album, nice sound... the streaming worked 100% and DID add all fx & control moves to the audio file
next tests are to export & import midifiles and see how they play, and to also play outboard from the sequencer with internal sounds to make a mix... also gotta see if there is any way to route audio outboard into the mix, cos if it had that and you could add realtime fx then this programme would actually be probably preferable to the big 3 sequencers for most dance music usage.. remember it is supposed to also take dx & vst fx & instruments which i'm gonnna try next...
it did occur to me that orion is mebbe an alternative to 'Reason' and so far it's looking bloody good
interestingly now that 'Reason' is out, steinberg are co-incidently NO longer handling propellorheads distribution... hmm.... it's a good time for alternative programmes not laden down with bloatware.. score edit anyone??...
Message 22/45 25-Nov-00 @ 03:54 AM - RE: ORION
well it doesnt seem to export (but it imports) midi... and i cant see any out port settings or way to sequence external, so this ones for the soft synths only but with real playability.. i loaded up a vst pro5 synth and it played ok in realtime given the underpowered machine (200mmx).. the pro-5 sequenced and slotted into the special orion interface just fine. also getting some real nice weird sawtooth stuff in the included wavedream synth & the basslines are just as good as rebirth and easyeir to sequence and control... hard house with orion would be a dream it plays breaks fine and you can crossfade tracks etc... it goes deep even with the included free synths & sampler... i actually forgot i was playing s/w for a while, pretty good stuff...
other nice touches are the pattern buttons change on the synths as they play in the track-area... each synth panel has a massive MUTE button to snap it in out quick...
if you want to make s/w synth music and was thinking of having to get vst to get access to the stuff, i dunno if it's worth it with s/w's like this, this rocks very good and the timing is so tight, and you can 'play' stuff over and record over steptime created patterns from a master keyboard... very good.. honestly ive got loads of hardware but this could make just as good music and you can 'play' it with a keyboard if you like just the same... it was wierd.. at one point i was playinh this s/w synth over a banging backing just as good as if it was hardware mixed, and thinking.. "a big quiet pc and a master keyboard.. with two lcd screens & a matrox dual head card mebbe?... er...". man it'd be so compact & cool...
other nice touches are the pattern buttons change on the synths as they play in the track-area... each synth panel has a massive MUTE button to snap it in out quick...
if you want to make s/w synth music and was thinking of having to get vst to get access to the stuff, i dunno if it's worth it with s/w's like this, this rocks very good and the timing is so tight, and you can 'play' stuff over and record over steptime created patterns from a master keyboard... very good.. honestly ive got loads of hardware but this could make just as good music and you can 'play' it with a keyboard if you like just the same... it was wierd.. at one point i was playinh this s/w synth over a banging backing just as good as if it was hardware mixed, and thinking.. "a big quiet pc and a master keyboard.. with two lcd screens & a matrox dual head card mebbe?... er...". man it'd be so compact & cool...
Message 23/45 25-Nov-00 @ 11:20 AM - RE: ORION
Midi out port option wil be in Orion Pro, out in December
Message 24/45 25-Nov-00 @ 07:03 PM - RE: ORION
really!!!... man.. i might just use Orion and scrap vst & logic as Orions timing is ROCK... sounds just like hardware
what i want on my wishlist is this:
I want a button that i can press, and it STACKS all the modules vertically.. like you know or /also when you grab a panel wether a synth, fx or whetever panel, and move it under another panel, it 'Locks' itself to the bottom of the upper panel, like when you move windows taskbar... what i want is the WHOLE stack of panels bolted together in any order vertically and then i want the ability to scroll the WHOLE screen up or down to access whichever part of the vertical 'Rack' i want.... now THAT would make it superb!!! - i can then have my Orion mixer full screen-width at all times, and bolt the items in whatever vertical stack order i like....
i also have a problem with text on the mixer spilling over onto the next channel... must be somehing to do with my system font settings?.. i didnt ask the guys yet about that...
also if they can make the VST fx also available as SEND fx and setup some returns for those so you can balance the returns that'd be a next-step & having the ability to add say a VST Wunderverb as my send/return reverb would be awesome.. at the moment vst & DX fx are INSERT only......
i'd also like similar to vst a drop-down selector to show whichever mixer channels you like... so i can view ONLY drum channels, vst instrument channels, orion instruments etc on the mixer and quickly flip between whichever channels i want to see (mebbe, but thats not so important) -- but the stacking ability would really make it superbly easy to navigate, and the vst & DX send fx addition would put the icing on the cake.. even as it stands now i'd recommend this no prob's to a newbie who wanted to make music and had NO equipment at all.. it's bargain of the century and you can remix old or other peoples midifiles.. i've got a feeling if i remember right at streaming time you can opt to stream to a wav file or a CD file !!! - i'll have to check it again for that.
anyways, straight-up... 100% this Orion is very good and for most people PREFERABLE to VST or cake or Logic if you dont have an investment in hardware yet.. the drums etc are just as good as a hardware drum unit the basslines & synths are also good, the included 'wavedream' synth has a 'JP-Sawtooth' bank included that does wicked sawtooth sounds and has a 'double-saw' button to instantly turn it into a double sawtooth with full pan spread etc...
what is best about ORION is it allows you the protocol to work with piano-roll style sequencing if you are used to it (and let's face it, it works real well).. BUT, it also allows the simple creating of songs using 'Patterns' like an old-style sequencer, BUT with easy visual ability to see what is happening.... so it is WAY easier for a newbie to get to grips making quality material, BUT also allows an expoerienced user to get in deep as deep can be... BUT it is EASIER to access the controller & synth realtime control parameters than ANY other music sequencer i've used... super-quick & instant, no messing about....
as they tweak the s/w and upgrade little bits of the interface it can only get better & better... this totally pisses on anything else i've tried once they get outboard midi sequening intergrated & audio IN routing to the mixer to 'add-in' your outboard sounds to the mix, then this will be 100% up there with vst/logic/cakewalk for a dance sequencer it is in most ways BETTER already than the big 2... and that is a 100% honest un-influenced opinion.
If you DONT have outboard then already this sequencer is BETTER than vst, logic or cake imo !!!... you gotta hear the quality of the drums etc... easily as good as my drumstation mixed on outboard, and you can add custom samples even to the Roland TR drumbox, plus there is a second 'custom .wav sample-only' drumbox included and you can run both at once in tandem... then add loops etc to the sampler !!!!!... BIG sound options.. literaly EVERYTHING you need to make pressing-quality music... also if your pc has enuff power (and with upgrades as you move on) you can add-in Waldorf PPg synths, pro-5, B3, etc etc... so many VST synmths are out there with many many more to come !! - remember, you can play those synths/drums/samples in realtime & record the playing as MIDI notes as they trigger the s/w sound generators, then edit those played patterns/parts like a standard editor piano-roll style !!!.... simple, quick, sounds great... what more do you want for 49 bucks !!!!!!... there is 100 free vst plugins in the DT file library alone and many more on the www, and you can define your VST & DX FX & VST-instrument directories when you start in 'Preferences' !! - yummy
oh yes... wishlist: - it doesn't seem to have a quantise swing setting... you can use a swing hat sample loop for example to do garage or Ibiza swing trance patterns style etc, but it'd be better if swing quantises were available & i didnt see them so far... still, this is a new programme with lots of updates due... mebbe swing quantise will do it, or mebbe i misswed it in the grid setting prefernces, in fact now i think about it, i think it might be in there... oh, and the 'quantise' button works good too... you do the command 'quantise' and see the patterns notes move on the screen... great!!.... i'm falling in love with Orion i think!... wire this into a p3 with a good low latency card fitted, add a cheap midi master keyboard and a decent monitor system and start making tunes to a high standard immeadiatly!
what i want on my wishlist is this:
I want a button that i can press, and it STACKS all the modules vertically.. like you know or /also when you grab a panel wether a synth, fx or whetever panel, and move it under another panel, it 'Locks' itself to the bottom of the upper panel, like when you move windows taskbar... what i want is the WHOLE stack of panels bolted together in any order vertically and then i want the ability to scroll the WHOLE screen up or down to access whichever part of the vertical 'Rack' i want.... now THAT would make it superb!!! - i can then have my Orion mixer full screen-width at all times, and bolt the items in whatever vertical stack order i like....
i also have a problem with text on the mixer spilling over onto the next channel... must be somehing to do with my system font settings?.. i didnt ask the guys yet about that...
also if they can make the VST fx also available as SEND fx and setup some returns for those so you can balance the returns that'd be a next-step & having the ability to add say a VST Wunderverb as my send/return reverb would be awesome.. at the moment vst & DX fx are INSERT only......
i'd also like similar to vst a drop-down selector to show whichever mixer channels you like... so i can view ONLY drum channels, vst instrument channels, orion instruments etc on the mixer and quickly flip between whichever channels i want to see (mebbe, but thats not so important) -- but the stacking ability would really make it superbly easy to navigate, and the vst & DX send fx addition would put the icing on the cake.. even as it stands now i'd recommend this no prob's to a newbie who wanted to make music and had NO equipment at all.. it's bargain of the century and you can remix old or other peoples midifiles.. i've got a feeling if i remember right at streaming time you can opt to stream to a wav file or a CD file !!! - i'll have to check it again for that.
anyways, straight-up... 100% this Orion is very good and for most people PREFERABLE to VST or cake or Logic if you dont have an investment in hardware yet.. the drums etc are just as good as a hardware drum unit the basslines & synths are also good, the included 'wavedream' synth has a 'JP-Sawtooth' bank included that does wicked sawtooth sounds and has a 'double-saw' button to instantly turn it into a double sawtooth with full pan spread etc...
what is best about ORION is it allows you the protocol to work with piano-roll style sequencing if you are used to it (and let's face it, it works real well).. BUT, it also allows the simple creating of songs using 'Patterns' like an old-style sequencer, BUT with easy visual ability to see what is happening.... so it is WAY easier for a newbie to get to grips making quality material, BUT also allows an expoerienced user to get in deep as deep can be... BUT it is EASIER to access the controller & synth realtime control parameters than ANY other music sequencer i've used... super-quick & instant, no messing about....
as they tweak the s/w and upgrade little bits of the interface it can only get better & better... this totally pisses on anything else i've tried once they get outboard midi sequening intergrated & audio IN routing to the mixer to 'add-in' your outboard sounds to the mix, then this will be 100% up there with vst/logic/cakewalk for a dance sequencer it is in most ways BETTER already than the big 2... and that is a 100% honest un-influenced opinion.
If you DONT have outboard then already this sequencer is BETTER than vst, logic or cake imo !!!... you gotta hear the quality of the drums etc... easily as good as my drumstation mixed on outboard, and you can add custom samples even to the Roland TR drumbox, plus there is a second 'custom .wav sample-only' drumbox included and you can run both at once in tandem... then add loops etc to the sampler !!!!!... BIG sound options.. literaly EVERYTHING you need to make pressing-quality music... also if your pc has enuff power (and with upgrades as you move on) you can add-in Waldorf PPg synths, pro-5, B3, etc etc... so many VST synmths are out there with many many more to come !! - remember, you can play those synths/drums/samples in realtime & record the playing as MIDI notes as they trigger the s/w sound generators, then edit those played patterns/parts like a standard editor piano-roll style !!!.... simple, quick, sounds great... what more do you want for 49 bucks !!!!!!... there is 100 free vst plugins in the DT file library alone and many more on the www, and you can define your VST & DX FX & VST-instrument directories when you start in 'Preferences' !! - yummy
oh yes... wishlist: - it doesn't seem to have a quantise swing setting... you can use a swing hat sample loop for example to do garage or Ibiza swing trance patterns style etc, but it'd be better if swing quantises were available & i didnt see them so far... still, this is a new programme with lots of updates due... mebbe swing quantise will do it, or mebbe i misswed it in the grid setting prefernces, in fact now i think about it, i think it might be in there... oh, and the 'quantise' button works good too... you do the command 'quantise' and see the patterns notes move on the screen... great!!.... i'm falling in love with Orion i think!... wire this into a p3 with a good low latency card fitted, add a cheap midi master keyboard and a decent monitor system and start making tunes to a high standard immeadiatly!
Message 25/45 26-Nov-00 @ 01:54 AM - RE: ORION
aha... ok in basic pattern edit the drums can be controlled by activating lights like rebirth etc.. but to get further in depth and when editing patterns played in from a keyboard you can go into piano roll edit type grid, and there you can set a higher resolution and get swing grooves and garage styles etc... perfect!!
hey check out this feature... you play the synth with the master keys... want to work some control in the pattern?... go to the screen to the synth you are playing, right click the synth control knob/parameter you want to control & select 'Learn'... wove the controller on your keyboard or controller device... it's set !!!.. ha ha... that works man i swear... so you can have the controller edit window open, click a parameter and just do a pass with the hardware controller... switch to a new control parameter?.. no probs, just right click the new control knob, move the hardware controller... sorted... start creating...
the new version due soon will sequence external gear apparently..
it also has UN-limited undo/redo !
also, with ACM (Audio Compression Manager) supported it now accepts any WAV files, even WAV MP3s !!! - load em straight up !!... songs can be saved with all samples or drum samples bundled... hmmm
hey check out this feature... you play the synth with the master keys... want to work some control in the pattern?... go to the screen to the synth you are playing, right click the synth control knob/parameter you want to control & select 'Learn'... wove the controller on your keyboard or controller device... it's set !!!.. ha ha... that works man i swear... so you can have the controller edit window open, click a parameter and just do a pass with the hardware controller... switch to a new control parameter?.. no probs, just right click the new control knob, move the hardware controller... sorted... start creating...
the new version due soon will sequence external gear apparently..
it also has UN-limited undo/redo !
also, with ACM (Audio Compression Manager) supported it now accepts any WAV files, even WAV MP3s !!! - load em straight up !!... songs can be saved with all samples or drum samples bundled... hmmm
Message 26/45 26-Nov-00 @ 01:14 PM - RE: ORION
K, If you haven't already, then I think you should send your gripes and wishes to Richard Hoffman the developer of orion. I think he'd be interested in your findings and he seems to listen to peoples ideas and implement them if possible.
Message 27/45 26-Nov-00 @ 02:45 PM - RE: ORION
i am !... he sent me the proggie :-) - and man, it's cool... it just needs a few more things to make it 100% perfect, what with the release of this, and now Reason we really are entering the era of the s/w workstation, and it's a really viable way to go !!
anyways, i've added a FULL review page of ORION, you can get to it from the site frontpage, or via the PCWARE section (search 'model' for ORION) - it's a BIG load, about 300kb but loads of images and full explanation of how all the ediuting etc works... check it out.
anyways, i've added a FULL review page of ORION, you can get to it from the site frontpage, or via the PCWARE section (search 'model' for ORION) - it's a BIG load, about 300kb but loads of images and full explanation of how all the ediuting etc works... check it out.
Message 29/45 27-Nov-00 @ 01:05 PM - RE: ORION
I registered Orion 1.1 some time ago after stumbling upon the page and I've been getting free upgrades ever since - I'd agree with just about everything said in the massive DT review, best of all the price! How refreshing to have a genuinely QUALITY product at a genuinely affordable price, compare ORION to REASON for value for money, I rest my case.
My only gripes at present would be 1) the lack of send effect flexability, you can use the reverb/delay or change these for your own DX/VST but you're restricted to using the same two send effects for all channels (or you were on 1.5, I've not tried 1.6 yet) and 2) the sequencer layout screen was a bit fiddly - it would be nice to be able to name patterns rather than always refer to them as A1, A2 rebirth style etc... Apart from that, an excellent buy. Respect.
Also, friendly next-day response from the support team, excellent!
My only gripes at present would be 1) the lack of send effect flexability, you can use the reverb/delay or change these for your own DX/VST but you're restricted to using the same two send effects for all channels (or you were on 1.5, I've not tried 1.6 yet) and 2) the sequencer layout screen was a bit fiddly - it would be nice to be able to name patterns rather than always refer to them as A1, A2 rebirth style etc... Apart from that, an excellent buy. Respect.
Also, friendly next-day response from the support team, excellent!
Message 30/45 27-Nov-00 @ 06:29 PM - RE: ORION
Hi
I have to say Orion has changed my music making life.
Yes Orion has its restrictions but all in all it makes me want to make music! No playing around with patch leads, trying to sync your soft synth. Who needs hundreds of sequencer functions of Cubase?
And to top it off, when you get bored of your synths. Well get yourself a new VST instrument or plugin! You can't do that with Reason.
Shit I bought P-52 this weekend This little badboy rocks!!!
I have to say Orion has changed my music making life.
Yes Orion has its restrictions but all in all it makes me want to make music! No playing around with patch leads, trying to sync your soft synth. Who needs hundreds of sequencer functions of Cubase?
And to top it off, when you get bored of your synths. Well get yourself a new VST instrument or plugin! You can't do that with Reason.
Shit I bought P-52 this weekend This little badboy rocks!!!
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