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Forums - Computer music & technology
Subject: VIA chipset users. Still having pro
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Original Message 1/4 20-Aug-01 @ 09:28 PM - VIA chipset users. Still having problems with it?
Hey!
I have a ASUS A7V133 VIA KT133 with Audiowerk 2 soundcard.
My soundcard works pretty good with the VIA chipset.
Now i wonder hows it going for you other who own a VIA chipset motherboard. What soundcard are u using? Do you still have problems with clicks and pops?
Would be nice to know if there is still problems.
Regards
toomas
I have a ASUS A7V133 VIA KT133 with Audiowerk 2 soundcard.
My soundcard works pretty good with the VIA chipset.
Now i wonder hows it going for you other who own a VIA chipset motherboard. What soundcard are u using? Do you still have problems with clicks and pops?
Would be nice to know if there is still problems.
Regards
toomas
Message 2/4 24-Aug-01 @ 11:02 AM - RE: VIA chipset users. Still having pro
Jasper
Posts: 424
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Never had any problems like that, but then I am using a state of the art soundblaster 128, most top studio's would love to own one, honest guv. yours for 450 quid.
Message 3/4 26-Aug-01 @ 01:16 PM - RE: VIA chipset users. Still having pro
no probs with my two via machines but i dont try to run large record and playback rates for audio - when i do this you find you need to increase the buffers as track rates go up, but thats the same for all these setups i find via or otherwise.
___________________________________
I had an idea for a script once. It's basically Jaws except when the guys in the boat are going after Jaws, they look around and there's an even bigger Jaws. The guys have to team up with Jaws to get Bigger Jaws.... I call it... Big Jaws!!!
Message 4/4 27-Aug-01 @ 04:35 PM - RE: VIA chipset users. Still having pro
A part from the last issue of SOS.
Chipset Incompatibility
There have always been some soundcards that have been fussy about what else you had in the computer. However, over the last couple of years a huge number of musicians have run into compatibility problems relating to one specific area -- AMD processors. Now before a lynch mob of Athlon evangelists descends on me, let me reassure you that I'm not saying anything against AMD processors per se, or that they are the direct cause of soundcard problems. In fact these probl
ems are nearly always due to incompatibilities between the soundcard and the motherboard chipset. It's just unfortunate that the majority of soundcard incompatibilities relate to motherboards with AMD processors, since Athlon floating-point performance -- which is very important for audio plug-ins in particular -- is now generally acknowledged to be excellent.
Every soundcard manufacturer will, of necessity, test that their products are fully compatible with PCs containing an Intel Pentium or Celeron processor and an Intel-designed motherboard chipset -- this is still the most common configuration worldwide, and thus the lowest common denominator. However, a much bigger range of chipsets is available for AMD-based motherboards, which makes it far more difficult for soundcard manufacturers to provide cast-iron guarantees of compatibility across the board with Athlon/Duron systems. Many current soundcard designs were also on the drawing board long before the Athlon appeared, so you simply can't expect them to have taken it into account. There are also a few third-party chipsets from such companies as Via for motherboards featuring Intel processors, and these have had teething troubles too.
Some soundcard manufacturers do test both new and existing models with at least one AMD-based chipset, but others stick to recommending Intel products only, meaning that Athlon owners may get little or no technical support if they do get problems. With at least eight chipsets currently available for the Athlon, and new ones being launched every few months, it would be almost impossible for many manufacturers to keep up with all the options -- but while researching this feature I was surprised at how many still don't mention anything about AMD on their web sites at all. Even if information is provided, you may also have to ferret about a bit: when I did find information it was variously in FAQs, Tech Support, on a separate Compatibility page (possibly the best approach), and in driver release notes for specific soundcards.
Consequently, many Athlon/Duron-owning musicians buy soundcards blind, either because they don't know a possible problem even exists, or because they can't get a definite answer from the soundcard manufacturer. The only answer in many cases is to ask other musicians who've already taken the plunge, so this is quite a common request on the SOS forum.
Athlon Motherboard Chipsets
The first step in anticipating possible compatibility problems is to find out which chipset your PC uses. To do this, open Control Panel and then System, and look in its Device Manager; under the System Devices section you will find the names of each chip of the chipset. Alternatively you can open up your PC
and look on the chips themselves for a manufacturer's name and part number. However, both of these methods can be confusing, since there are normally two or three chips in a specific set, each with different numbers, so probably the easiest way is to look in your motherboard manual if you have one, or determine the make and model of your motherboard and then find the information on the manufacturer's web site.
So which chipsets cause the problems, and what can you expect? Well, one of the most common incompatibilities is between the early AMD 750 chipset for Athlon processors, and the Motorola DSP chip used on soundcards like Soundscape's Mixtreme, the Echo range, and the Lexicon Core 2. Aardvark soundcards won't work with this chipset either, so I suspect they also use Motorola DSP chips. Some musicians suffered loads of clicks and pops, while others couldn't boot up their PCs at all once the soundcard had been installed. There is no cure, but only early Athlon motherboards used this chipset, and in general AMD's more recent AMD 760 range has been declared compatible with all these soundcards.
Via have quite a few different chipsets available, including the Apollo KX133, KT133, KT133A, and KT266 for Socket A/Slot A motherboards used with Athlon/Duron processors. The KX133 appeared shortly after AMD's first 750 chipset, and also proved problematic, although Soundscape have publicly declared it compatible with their Mixtreme card, and Aardvark with their range. During my researches I came across reports of M Audio cards getting stuck in infinite loops during playback with AMD-Via combinations, particularly when playing Windows sounds -- this can apparently be resolved by running a small patch file. MOTU also report that they have been able to get some more recent Via chipsets to work with their soundcards after downloading the 'four in one update' from www.via.com.tw, while Echo have reported that their cards have problems with IRQ routing in Windows 98 with Via chipsets, although many of their customers have solved these by downloading the 'IRQ routing miniport driver' from the Via web site.
If you want to 'go Athlon' then buying a motherboard using the Via KT133A chipset (an update of the earlier KT133) is thought to be the safest bet for musicians, but it's also important to buy a well-known motherboard make and model -- cutting corners to save a few pounds off the price can backfire on you. However, a new scare appeared in April 2001, when it was discovered that various Via chipsets caused audio crackling during large file transfers between two hard drives connected to different IDE channels. Soundblaster Live! owners seem to have been particularly affected, and the crackling was apparently caused by a problem with the Via 686B Southbridge controller chip. Unfortunately this chip is not only used with Via's own KT133 and KT133A chipsets, but may also be used with other chipsets including the Apollo Pro 133, KX133A, and AMD 76x chipsets too.
There have been a few temporary BIOS fixes for this involving adjusting various PCI settings, and you can download a third-party patch that performs these adjustments automatically (see Further Reading box). However, as I finished this column Via announced that they will be posting a new IDE driver for users of the Soundblaster Live!, and that they haven't found any other configuration that suffers from the same problem. Mind you, users of other consumer soundcards have also reported the same symptoms, so the problem doesn't seem to have been completely solved as yet.
If your Athlon motherboard uses chipsets from other, less well-known manufacturers like ALi and SiS then you're even less likely to get a definitive answer from a soundcard manufacturer. That's not to say that you'll get problems, just that few people will know the answer. SiS have recently released a new 735 chipset for Athlon/Duron motherboards which seems to be outperforming AMD's 760 and VIA's Apollo KT266 and KT133A, but it's just not been out long enough for many real-world soundcard tests to have taken place.
Those with older PCs don't escape either -- a few manufacturers have also posted details on Socket 7 chipsets supporting the original Pentium and AMD K6/K7 processors. MOTU state that older SiS and Via MVP3 Socket 7 chipsets are incompatible with their PCI 324 card, and Yamaha have also pronounced some older sets such as the SiS 5596/5598 and Opti Viper incompatible with their SW1000XG, but I doubt that this will worry many musicians nowadays unless they are intending to buy a new soundcard and install it in a PC more than three or four years old.
Intel Motherboard Chipsets
If you have an Intel Pentium II or III processor, or an Intel Celeron, then fewer chipset options are available. Most musicians are still likely to have motherboards either featuring the older but very reliable Intel 440BX chipset introduced in 1998, or the newer Via Apollo Pro series for Socket 370 and Slot 1 motherboards, which includes the Apollo Pro 133, 133A, and 266. These had clear advantages over the older 440BX in some areas of specification (see 'Solid Foundations' in SOS January 2000 for further details), but in practice the Intel 440BX held its own in performance terms, and is far more likely to be compatible with every soundcard. In my researches I came across a few users claiming compatibility problems between Echo Layla and Gina 24 models and the Apollo Pro 133A chipset, but nothing concrete.
Intel next introduced their i820 chipset, but this could only use expensive RDRAM memory, never really took off, and did apparently suffer some compatibility problems. Far more successful have been Intel's i815E and i815EP (a version without the built-in video support) chipsets for Pentium III and Celeron processors, as used in the Asus CUSL2C motherboard and much praised by musicians. A reliable source who installs different soundcards in PCs on a daily basis told me that the only problems he had found with this were with Lexicon's Core 2 and the Turtle Beach Montego II, so it still pays to be careful, but that the vast majority of soundcards are very happy with this chipset.
This largely brings us up to date with Intel's fairly new 850 chipset, as used by the latest Pentium 4 processor range. Once again this uses RDRAM and is still fairly expensive, but supports the fastest currently available processors -- up to 1.7GHz. I've no doubt that a few soundcard incompatibilities may exist, once again because nearly all current soundcards were designed before the Pentium 4 range was released. However, you can bet your bottom dollar that all new soundcards will be tested with the 850 as a matter of course.
Chipset Incompatibility
There have always been some soundcards that have been fussy about what else you had in the computer. However, over the last couple of years a huge number of musicians have run into compatibility problems relating to one specific area -- AMD processors. Now before a lynch mob of Athlon evangelists descends on me, let me reassure you that I'm not saying anything against AMD processors per se, or that they are the direct cause of soundcard problems. In fact these probl
ems are nearly always due to incompatibilities between the soundcard and the motherboard chipset. It's just unfortunate that the majority of soundcard incompatibilities relate to motherboards with AMD processors, since Athlon floating-point performance -- which is very important for audio plug-ins in particular -- is now generally acknowledged to be excellent.
Every soundcard manufacturer will, of necessity, test that their products are fully compatible with PCs containing an Intel Pentium or Celeron processor and an Intel-designed motherboard chipset -- this is still the most common configuration worldwide, and thus the lowest common denominator. However, a much bigger range of chipsets is available for AMD-based motherboards, which makes it far more difficult for soundcard manufacturers to provide cast-iron guarantees of compatibility across the board with Athlon/Duron systems. Many current soundcard designs were also on the drawing board long before the Athlon appeared, so you simply can't expect them to have taken it into account. There are also a few third-party chipsets from such companies as Via for motherboards featuring Intel processors, and these have had teething troubles too.
Some soundcard manufacturers do test both new and existing models with at least one AMD-based chipset, but others stick to recommending Intel products only, meaning that Athlon owners may get little or no technical support if they do get problems. With at least eight chipsets currently available for the Athlon, and new ones being launched every few months, it would be almost impossible for many manufacturers to keep up with all the options -- but while researching this feature I was surprised at how many still don't mention anything about AMD on their web sites at all. Even if information is provided, you may also have to ferret about a bit: when I did find information it was variously in FAQs, Tech Support, on a separate Compatibility page (possibly the best approach), and in driver release notes for specific soundcards.
Consequently, many Athlon/Duron-owning musicians buy soundcards blind, either because they don't know a possible problem even exists, or because they can't get a definite answer from the soundcard manufacturer. The only answer in many cases is to ask other musicians who've already taken the plunge, so this is quite a common request on the SOS forum.
Athlon Motherboard Chipsets
The first step in anticipating possible compatibility problems is to find out which chipset your PC uses. To do this, open Control Panel and then System, and look in its Device Manager; under the System Devices section you will find the names of each chip of the chipset. Alternatively you can open up your PC
and look on the chips themselves for a manufacturer's name and part number. However, both of these methods can be confusing, since there are normally two or three chips in a specific set, each with different numbers, so probably the easiest way is to look in your motherboard manual if you have one, or determine the make and model of your motherboard and then find the information on the manufacturer's web site.
So which chipsets cause the problems, and what can you expect? Well, one of the most common incompatibilities is between the early AMD 750 chipset for Athlon processors, and the Motorola DSP chip used on soundcards like Soundscape's Mixtreme, the Echo range, and the Lexicon Core 2. Aardvark soundcards won't work with this chipset either, so I suspect they also use Motorola DSP chips. Some musicians suffered loads of clicks and pops, while others couldn't boot up their PCs at all once the soundcard had been installed. There is no cure, but only early Athlon motherboards used this chipset, and in general AMD's more recent AMD 760 range has been declared compatible with all these soundcards.
Via have quite a few different chipsets available, including the Apollo KX133, KT133, KT133A, and KT266 for Socket A/Slot A motherboards used with Athlon/Duron processors. The KX133 appeared shortly after AMD's first 750 chipset, and also proved problematic, although Soundscape have publicly declared it compatible with their Mixtreme card, and Aardvark with their range. During my researches I came across reports of M Audio cards getting stuck in infinite loops during playback with AMD-Via combinations, particularly when playing Windows sounds -- this can apparently be resolved by running a small patch file. MOTU also report that they have been able to get some more recent Via chipsets to work with their soundcards after downloading the 'four in one update' from www.via.com.tw, while Echo have reported that their cards have problems with IRQ routing in Windows 98 with Via chipsets, although many of their customers have solved these by downloading the 'IRQ routing miniport driver' from the Via web site.
If you want to 'go Athlon' then buying a motherboard using the Via KT133A chipset (an update of the earlier KT133) is thought to be the safest bet for musicians, but it's also important to buy a well-known motherboard make and model -- cutting corners to save a few pounds off the price can backfire on you. However, a new scare appeared in April 2001, when it was discovered that various Via chipsets caused audio crackling during large file transfers between two hard drives connected to different IDE channels. Soundblaster Live! owners seem to have been particularly affected, and the crackling was apparently caused by a problem with the Via 686B Southbridge controller chip. Unfortunately this chip is not only used with Via's own KT133 and KT133A chipsets, but may also be used with other chipsets including the Apollo Pro 133, KX133A, and AMD 76x chipsets too.
There have been a few temporary BIOS fixes for this involving adjusting various PCI settings, and you can download a third-party patch that performs these adjustments automatically (see Further Reading box). However, as I finished this column Via announced that they will be posting a new IDE driver for users of the Soundblaster Live!, and that they haven't found any other configuration that suffers from the same problem. Mind you, users of other consumer soundcards have also reported the same symptoms, so the problem doesn't seem to have been completely solved as yet.
If your Athlon motherboard uses chipsets from other, less well-known manufacturers like ALi and SiS then you're even less likely to get a definitive answer from a soundcard manufacturer. That's not to say that you'll get problems, just that few people will know the answer. SiS have recently released a new 735 chipset for Athlon/Duron motherboards which seems to be outperforming AMD's 760 and VIA's Apollo KT266 and KT133A, but it's just not been out long enough for many real-world soundcard tests to have taken place.
Those with older PCs don't escape either -- a few manufacturers have also posted details on Socket 7 chipsets supporting the original Pentium and AMD K6/K7 processors. MOTU state that older SiS and Via MVP3 Socket 7 chipsets are incompatible with their PCI 324 card, and Yamaha have also pronounced some older sets such as the SiS 5596/5598 and Opti Viper incompatible with their SW1000XG, but I doubt that this will worry many musicians nowadays unless they are intending to buy a new soundcard and install it in a PC more than three or four years old.
Intel Motherboard Chipsets
If you have an Intel Pentium II or III processor, or an Intel Celeron, then fewer chipset options are available. Most musicians are still likely to have motherboards either featuring the older but very reliable Intel 440BX chipset introduced in 1998, or the newer Via Apollo Pro series for Socket 370 and Slot 1 motherboards, which includes the Apollo Pro 133, 133A, and 266. These had clear advantages over the older 440BX in some areas of specification (see 'Solid Foundations' in SOS January 2000 for further details), but in practice the Intel 440BX held its own in performance terms, and is far more likely to be compatible with every soundcard. In my researches I came across a few users claiming compatibility problems between Echo Layla and Gina 24 models and the Apollo Pro 133A chipset, but nothing concrete.
Intel next introduced their i820 chipset, but this could only use expensive RDRAM memory, never really took off, and did apparently suffer some compatibility problems. Far more successful have been Intel's i815E and i815EP (a version without the built-in video support) chipsets for Pentium III and Celeron processors, as used in the Asus CUSL2C motherboard and much praised by musicians. A reliable source who installs different soundcards in PCs on a daily basis told me that the only problems he had found with this were with Lexicon's Core 2 and the Turtle Beach Montego II, so it still pays to be careful, but that the vast majority of soundcards are very happy with this chipset.
This largely brings us up to date with Intel's fairly new 850 chipset, as used by the latest Pentium 4 processor range. Once again this uses RDRAM and is still fairly expensive, but supports the fastest currently available processors -- up to 1.7GHz. I've no doubt that a few soundcard incompatibilities may exist, once again because nearly all current soundcards were designed before the Pentium 4 range was released. However, you can bet your bottom dollar that all new soundcards will be tested with the 850 as a matter of course.
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