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Forums - Computer music & technology
Subject: Orion Vs. Reason
Original Message Date: 06-Dec-00 @ 11:44 AM - Orion Vs. Reason
Hello All!
This time I wanna talk about the diffrences between Reason And Orion.
I bought Orion three months ago, when it was a baby, and now Orion grew to be a top-notch "all in one" virtual studio.
IMHO Orion is better than Reason.
The Synths are better, and you can produce more intersting themes\lines\basses with them.
After playing four days with Reason I can say that the Sub-Tractor synth is nice, but the wasp in orion is better.
I didn't like the sampler, because it doesn't support *.wav and Akai programs.
The oroin sampler at least supports wav's.
The new {orion 2.0 pro} has so many new features, which give Orion power that is equal to Hardware.
I will be gald if you will Write your Opinions, and talk about these wonderful new programs.
Happy Composing,
Fatal Virus
-----------------
Let's make some noise!
This time I wanna talk about the diffrences between Reason And Orion.
I bought Orion three months ago, when it was a baby, and now Orion grew to be a top-notch "all in one" virtual studio.
IMHO Orion is better than Reason.
The Synths are better, and you can produce more intersting themes\lines\basses with them.
After playing four days with Reason I can say that the Sub-Tractor synth is nice, but the wasp in orion is better.
I didn't like the sampler, because it doesn't support *.wav and Akai programs.
The oroin sampler at least supports wav's.
The new {orion 2.0 pro} has so many new features, which give Orion power that is equal to Hardware.
I will be gald if you will Write your Opinions, and talk about these wonderful new programs.
Happy Composing,
Fatal Virus
-----------------
Let's make some noise!
Message 31/53 10-Feb-01 @ 09:49 AM - RE: Orion Vs. Reason
I think the user interface is a matter of taste. To me it's the opposite way around. I think reason is far more easier to use than orion. It just works like any hardware synth and once you get the cabling sorted out it's really nice. For example at first I was pissed off that there was no stereo delay.. well it was actually no prob. I just linked too delay units on one aux bus and there, a stereo delay! I could even add a filter or phaser on the end of the chain to make it even more interesting sounding. I think this is one of the best things in reason - everything is so simple and logical.. you can really concentrate on music making. I also like the sequencer. You can very easily record melodies with your keyboard if you use the auto quantize option.. no need to adjust quantize afterwards. Just one record and you've got a great melody running there. The do a second run and tweak filter settings or whatever.. Very simple and easy. I know reason is expensive but it really shows in the design and overall quality of the program. For the price and functionality it's actually one of the best complete music making solutions out there. The sound quality is another factor I'm not goint to comment too much. I know I've got some great sounds out of it.
Message 32/53 10-Feb-01 @ 05:11 PM - RE: Orion Vs. Reason
one thing to consider, this is Reason V1.... who knows what they come with next version... (the sequwencer does have an 'expand' button to make it bigger, but for me the fact it cannot strech wider is the problem) - however, you can sequence it from cubase etc so you dont have to use internal seq'
Message 33/53 10-Feb-01 @ 08:21 PM - RE: Orion Vs. Reason
spent another hour with it tonight, and i have to say, for the samplists out there especially those who like to mess with loops, the REXPLAYER units you can add into the rack are superb... in fact 300 quid for what they do for you with loops is probably worth it alone to compliment your sampler in a hardware mix with a decent 24/96 dynamic audio out to route to the mix board... each step of the slices can be sequenced and each step can be adjusted for pitch, pan position, level & more importantly decay - so take a guitar loop recycle it into 16ths slices, load it into REXPLAYER,then you can trim the decay pan & volume of all the little riff chops and adjust the feel from subtly to radically with the loop.. the whole lot then has an amp env & filter env, lfo section all with a hipass12/lopass12&24/bandpass12/& notch - i realise many top end samplers will do this etc, but onscreen it is soooo easy and if you dont have a sampler this opens up a whole new world for your sample loops wether drums, riff's or whatever...
I must admit, that whilst i've always understood the principals behind recycle files i never used them before... but i'm a convert now that's for sure !!!... especially for like disco house acid jazz, drum&bass etc etc. you can take a funky guitar riff, adjust the slices to create different offbeats and 'palmed' notes where you want them etc then stuff it inot a nice thin filter like thru an old gramaphone and sweep it across a pattern etc.. wicked stuff...
The other thing I noticed tonight is just how solid the sequencer is... very tight!...
so... lets say you had VST & some s/w synths & some outboard... just adding REASON in comparison to what 300 quid will buy you hardware-wise would to my mind be a huge advantage AS A TOOL... think of it like that as opposed to 'i need a whole s/w setup' - no, don't think of it like that, (and how it is usually discussed/reviewed)... sure it'll do that.. you could easily master hardhouse & other club styles, garage, drum&bass,trance etc on REASON no probs... but i'm looking at it here as a studio TOOL - and in that respects it'll add bags of power to your studio for samples & loops alone.... so if you are a hardware man, aqnd 'pooh' at the main idea that reason is a s/w synth suite, also look at it for sample-techniques... this'll frankly be probably more creative that a real sampler... certainly it is fast to 'intuit'... i aint checked the help pages yet..
still not saying as a complete stand alone 's/w music-making suite' Reason is more 'powerful' that Orion.... just to check Reason (and Orion) differently when evaluating them, cos there is more ways to kill a pig than stuffing strawberries up it's arse.
I must admit, that whilst i've always understood the principals behind recycle files i never used them before... but i'm a convert now that's for sure !!!... especially for like disco house acid jazz, drum&bass etc etc. you can take a funky guitar riff, adjust the slices to create different offbeats and 'palmed' notes where you want them etc then stuff it inot a nice thin filter like thru an old gramaphone and sweep it across a pattern etc.. wicked stuff...
The other thing I noticed tonight is just how solid the sequencer is... very tight!...
so... lets say you had VST & some s/w synths & some outboard... just adding REASON in comparison to what 300 quid will buy you hardware-wise would to my mind be a huge advantage AS A TOOL... think of it like that as opposed to 'i need a whole s/w setup' - no, don't think of it like that, (and how it is usually discussed/reviewed)... sure it'll do that.. you could easily master hardhouse & other club styles, garage, drum&bass,trance etc on REASON no probs... but i'm looking at it here as a studio TOOL - and in that respects it'll add bags of power to your studio for samples & loops alone.... so if you are a hardware man, aqnd 'pooh' at the main idea that reason is a s/w synth suite, also look at it for sample-techniques... this'll frankly be probably more creative that a real sampler... certainly it is fast to 'intuit'... i aint checked the help pages yet..
still not saying as a complete stand alone 's/w music-making suite' Reason is more 'powerful' that Orion.... just to check Reason (and Orion) differently when evaluating them, cos there is more ways to kill a pig than stuffing strawberries up it's arse.
Message 34/53 11-Feb-01 @ 09:10 PM - RE: Orion Vs. Reason
k, don't forget to post a tune u made with Reason if you can
so we can all listen to it/ Thanks!
so we can all listen to it/ Thanks!
Message 35/53 13-Feb-01 @ 12:55 AM - RE: Orion Vs. Reason
man i wont have time to do a 'tune' - gotta finish the new site - cant even do a review page for reason yet, just some days i get half an hour on it to discover new stuff... frankly what with this, Orion & other vst synths i am in a dilema about what to do with the studio...
Reason has a nice 'tone' to the drums also by the way, sorta warm, rnb beats sound nice and fat, the eq frequencies on the mixer although only two band is actually set out quite well by Prop'heads, it's quite good for that 'phatness' adder -
the problem is... screens, mousing, looking at small icons etc etc... i just couldnt do it all day, but then again, the power in the sample player & rexplayer & drumbox combines is pretty awesome... it'd be interesting to run that drum combi out of multiouts thru a rack of converters down to 12 bit and then into a decent mixer -
what you really want, and what i'd do if i decided to really build a studio around/incorporating Reason), is a 17" or above monitor set to 800x600 - then reason would be fullscreen-width with big controllers, everything would be big on the screen & easier to use. but only got a 15" screen running at 1024x768 and it is too small really for all-day woirk, this machine it is on is not for the studio only see.... (need a bigger screen, getting a 17" soon so we'll see how it looks on that, but without a doubt it was in Porp'heads minds to run Reason stand alone in a proper studio (not on the 'accounts & graphics' machine, but on it's own machine, then you can have the settings & screen estate you need for 'all-day' working (and viewing from further away when standing up and messing with other gear in the studio)
It has to be said, that reason or orion added into a hardware studio on a cheap dedicated pc (cheap cos nothing flashy added) and run it into hardware mix alongside synths would add big power to any studio wanting to upgrade it's 'sounds'... it'd cost at 'buy from the shops' prices (not building the pc etc) under 1000 for the pc & reason (less with orion) plus a multi-out device) and might be a better addition than a sampler say. cos if you want to run it AS a sampler youve got tons of ram, and huge storage. Then again that new VST sampler loads akai stuff off of cdrom drive... tought choices nowadays...
For me, you cant really beat a real user doing a live set flipping thru the hardware and running the mix live hands-on on the board... when that is flowing it is awesome to watch... i dunno... descisions eh?.. :-) - but i think we have to look beyond this 'hardware versus s/w studio' - nowadays BOTH can be there and integrate so well...with the right audio card, all thse s/w are playable and controllable in realtime just as you'd 'play' another hardware module from your master keyboard..... and after all, most of the hardware you buy now is bugged or 'fixed next update'... not all, but alot, so... the 'distinction' that was so easy to make before between 'hardware & s/w' is greying methinks ?...
and make no mistake, the sound of a good sample in reason, orion or a vsti drumbox, a drum snare cracking out of the speakers via a decent 24/96 card is JUST AS dynamic and full as from any hardware sampler when mixed on the mixer with the other outboard...
you don't go down the board soloing channels & thinking: "ah!.. that's a vsti,... ah!.. that's a 'real synth'..." - the sound is there, drums sounds are well crisp & trigger instantly... (ok ok, it AIN'T going to sound like an old s700, s950, w30 or emax etc... but... you can always add one of those. ;]
Reason has a nice 'tone' to the drums also by the way, sorta warm, rnb beats sound nice and fat, the eq frequencies on the mixer although only two band is actually set out quite well by Prop'heads, it's quite good for that 'phatness' adder -
the problem is... screens, mousing, looking at small icons etc etc... i just couldnt do it all day, but then again, the power in the sample player & rexplayer & drumbox combines is pretty awesome... it'd be interesting to run that drum combi out of multiouts thru a rack of converters down to 12 bit and then into a decent mixer -
what you really want, and what i'd do if i decided to really build a studio around/incorporating Reason), is a 17" or above monitor set to 800x600 - then reason would be fullscreen-width with big controllers, everything would be big on the screen & easier to use. but only got a 15" screen running at 1024x768 and it is too small really for all-day woirk, this machine it is on is not for the studio only see.... (need a bigger screen, getting a 17" soon so we'll see how it looks on that, but without a doubt it was in Porp'heads minds to run Reason stand alone in a proper studio (not on the 'accounts & graphics' machine, but on it's own machine, then you can have the settings & screen estate you need for 'all-day' working (and viewing from further away when standing up and messing with other gear in the studio)
It has to be said, that reason or orion added into a hardware studio on a cheap dedicated pc (cheap cos nothing flashy added) and run it into hardware mix alongside synths would add big power to any studio wanting to upgrade it's 'sounds'... it'd cost at 'buy from the shops' prices (not building the pc etc) under 1000 for the pc & reason (less with orion) plus a multi-out device) and might be a better addition than a sampler say. cos if you want to run it AS a sampler youve got tons of ram, and huge storage. Then again that new VST sampler loads akai stuff off of cdrom drive... tought choices nowadays...
For me, you cant really beat a real user doing a live set flipping thru the hardware and running the mix live hands-on on the board... when that is flowing it is awesome to watch... i dunno... descisions eh?.. :-) - but i think we have to look beyond this 'hardware versus s/w studio' - nowadays BOTH can be there and integrate so well...with the right audio card, all thse s/w are playable and controllable in realtime just as you'd 'play' another hardware module from your master keyboard..... and after all, most of the hardware you buy now is bugged or 'fixed next update'... not all, but alot, so... the 'distinction' that was so easy to make before between 'hardware & s/w' is greying methinks ?...
and make no mistake, the sound of a good sample in reason, orion or a vsti drumbox, a drum snare cracking out of the speakers via a decent 24/96 card is JUST AS dynamic and full as from any hardware sampler when mixed on the mixer with the other outboard...
you don't go down the board soloing channels & thinking: "ah!.. that's a vsti,... ah!.. that's a 'real synth'..." - the sound is there, drums sounds are well crisp & trigger instantly... (ok ok, it AIN'T going to sound like an old s700, s950, w30 or emax etc... but... you can always add one of those. ;]
Message 36/53 14-Feb-01 @ 08:33 AM - RE: Orion Vs. Reason
I agree with a lot of your points there k, esp about the distinction between hard / soft not being what it was...anyway people don't give a fuck on the dancefloor, it's only trainspotters like me who stand there and go "ooh, well that's clearly not a real 303, there's no way I'm dancing to this" hehehehe.
I'd go for more res on a bigger monitor though, I've noticed with a lot of software you can't fit it all on screen at once running 800 x 600, you keep having to scroll up and down, and it pisses me right off. I've just got a 19" cheap off a mate, and 1024 x 768 looks spot on. I've got 2 problems now though - I haven't really got enough room for the bloody thing, and I can't afford to buy Reason for at least a couple of months
-Ed
I'd go for more res on a bigger monitor though, I've noticed with a lot of software you can't fit it all on screen at once running 800 x 600, you keep having to scroll up and down, and it pisses me right off. I've just got a 19" cheap off a mate, and 1024 x 768 looks spot on. I've got 2 problems now though - I haven't really got enough room for the bloody thing, and I can't afford to buy Reason for at least a couple of months
-Ed
Message 37/53 15-Feb-01 @ 08:30 AM - RE: Orion Vs. Reason
of course it's not a good thing to use the mouse and keyboard to control reason...buy a decent hardware-controller (i use my rm1x for this, a doepfer pocketfader for controlling the mixer will come in later) to control everything you need..much easier...if you're short on cash you can assign all kinds of switches to your keyboard to do realtime muting and soloing, and pattern-switching...
furthermore, reason is very much samplebased, but the way you can mangle the samples makes it much more than just a simple sample-playback (think yamaha or EMU sample-engine) ..and don't forget the power of the Subtractor synth...
Olaf
furthermore, reason is very much samplebased, but the way you can mangle the samples makes it much more than just a simple sample-playback (think yamaha or EMU sample-engine) ..and don't forget the power of the Subtractor synth...
Olaf
Message 38/53 16-Feb-01 @ 05:51 PM - RE: Orion Vs. Reason
true, the subtractor synth is very good indeed. all in all for a s/w it's a superb package.
Message 39/53 17-Feb-01 @ 08:01 AM - RE: Orion Vs. Reason
Heard you can buy Reason for $280. Anyone know where?
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