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Forums - Computer music & technology
Subject: Orion Vs. Reason
Viewing all 53 messages - View by pages of 10: 1 2 3 4 5 6
Original Message 1/53 06-Dec-00 @ 11:44 AM - Orion Vs. Reason
Hello All!
This time I wanna talk about the diffrences between Reason And Orion.
I bought Orion three months ago, when it was a baby, and now Orion grew to be a top-notch "all in one" virtual studio.
IMHO Orion is better than Reason.
The Synths are better, and you can produce more intersting themes\lines\basses with them.
After playing four days with Reason I can say that the Sub-Tractor synth is nice, but the wasp in orion is better.
I didn't like the sampler, because it doesn't support *.wav and Akai programs.
The oroin sampler at least supports wav's.
The new {orion 2.0 pro} has so many new features, which give Orion power that is equal to Hardware.
I will be gald if you will Write your Opinions, and talk about these wonderful new programs.
Happy Composing,
Fatal Virus
-----------------
Let's make some noise!
This time I wanna talk about the diffrences between Reason And Orion.
I bought Orion three months ago, when it was a baby, and now Orion grew to be a top-notch "all in one" virtual studio.
IMHO Orion is better than Reason.
The Synths are better, and you can produce more intersting themes\lines\basses with them.
After playing four days with Reason I can say that the Sub-Tractor synth is nice, but the wasp in orion is better.
I didn't like the sampler, because it doesn't support *.wav and Akai programs.
The oroin sampler at least supports wav's.
The new {orion 2.0 pro} has so many new features, which give Orion power that is equal to Hardware.
I will be gald if you will Write your Opinions, and talk about these wonderful new programs.
Happy Composing,
Fatal Virus
-----------------
Let's make some noise!
Message 2/53 08-Dec-00 @ 01:18 PM - RE: Orion Vs. Reason
i guess you're a littlebit biased because you bought Orion ;)
Reason's sampler DOES import .WAV files btw.
Reason's performance is much better than Orion on my PC....but i've heard from other people the other way around....
i like the sound characteristics of Reason better than Orion...
the price of orion is much cheaper, and the fact that it supports DirectX and VST is a BIG pro over Reason...
i dont like the GUI of Orion, too cluttered, love the rack-interface of reason...
about the synth being worse/better: i think they all have great flexibility, it's just what you can do with them...
technology is just a tool...it's about what you can do with it..
Olaf
Reason's sampler DOES import .WAV files btw.
Reason's performance is much better than Orion on my PC....but i've heard from other people the other way around....
i like the sound characteristics of Reason better than Orion...
the price of orion is much cheaper, and the fact that it supports DirectX and VST is a BIG pro over Reason...
i dont like the GUI of Orion, too cluttered, love the rack-interface of reason...
about the synth being worse/better: i think they all have great flexibility, it's just what you can do with them...
technology is just a tool...it's about what you can do with it..
Olaf
Message 3/53 25-Dec-00 @ 10:26 PM - RE: Orion Vs. Reason
Yup.. I've made some great results with reason demo.. output all synths to independent outputs to get better mixing and fx. all in 24bit/96khz even.
I can't wait to get the full version. (hmm.. I got an ftp but have to wait to dl it at work since my modem connection suxx).. just dling the new orion have to check it out too 1.5 crashed alot..
I can't wait to get the full version. (hmm.. I got an ftp but have to wait to dl it at work since my modem connection suxx).. just dling the new orion have to check it out too 1.5 crashed alot..
Message 4/53 05-Jan-01 @ 11:13 PM - RE: Orion Vs. Reason
i got the reason demo - but it's on my old pc which i aint networked in yet (next week!!) - then we do a head to head test -
actually i'm setting up a demo ftp download area here for propellorheads, so when they is done they said they'll bung me a full copy - so we can review that
actually i'm setting up a demo ftp download area here for propellorheads, so when they is done they said they'll bung me a full copy - so we can review that
Message 5/53 11-Jan-01 @ 02:31 PM - RE: Orion Vs. Reason
reason sucks (eats lot of CPU + 500MB factory bank )
better try new "fruity loops 3" (out this week - I hope)
better try new "fruity loops 3" (out this week - I hope)
Message 6/53 11-Jan-01 @ 04:40 PM - RE: Orion Vs. Reason
I must admit, I'm not that impressed with Reason. It's a shame the demo times out before you can get into it, because from what it says on their homepage, about linking one module into another, ie using a drum module to control a filter or something, it sounds quite interesting. At least with Orion, you can always record some of the sounds from your soundcard and see what they sound like in a mix before you buy it. I managed to run the demo for a week without it crashing, which gives you a much better idea of it's capabilities than a 20 minute session.
Orion seems a lot easier to use as well.
Orion seems a lot easier to use as well.
Message 7/53 15-Jan-01 @ 10:50 PM - RE: Orion Vs. Reason
About querty's "Reason sucks" statement:
I'm sorry to be negative here, but chances are, if your current machine can't run Reason, and you can't afford to upgrade your CPU, then you probably can't afford Reason, either.
Secondly, what -exactly- is bad about having over 500MB of samples, loops, and patches to work with? Since when is this a negative thing?
Hey, Orion, Fruity, Buzz, or any other free/low cost application are great things. Power to the people and all that. However, a blanket statement like "Reason sucks" sounds uninformed.
7String
I'm sorry to be negative here, but chances are, if your current machine can't run Reason, and you can't afford to upgrade your CPU, then you probably can't afford Reason, either.
Secondly, what -exactly- is bad about having over 500MB of samples, loops, and patches to work with? Since when is this a negative thing?
Hey, Orion, Fruity, Buzz, or any other free/low cost application are great things. Power to the people and all that. However, a blanket statement like "Reason sucks" sounds uninformed.
7String
Message 8/53 16-Jan-01 @ 08:00 AM - RE: Orion Vs. Reason
I've heard quite a lot about Reason; but is it something you're supposed to use as a stand alone app, or will it work well, say, slaved to Logic? (ReWire? MIDI sync?)
Message 9/53 17-Jan-01 @ 10:12 PM - RE: Orion Vs. Reason
... snip
Reason adapts to you
Use Reason the way you want to:
1.) As a self-contained synth studio system. Everything you need is there, including a fast and flexible sequencer with powerful, dedicated event editors for each type of device.
2.) Using ReWire, patched into and synched with your audio sequencer. Process Reason’s audio output with plug-in effects and mix it with your hard disk tracks. With Reason in ReWire mode, its instruments are automatically patched into the mixer in Cubase VST. Integration is seamless.
3.) As a virtual synth rack with your MIDI sequencer. Reason’s devices can be handled in exactly the same way as hardware.
... snip
Check it out at:
http://www.propellerheads.se/products/reason/frame.html
Message 10/53 18-Jan-01 @ 01:36 AM - RE: Orion Vs. Reason
Reason is a lot better quality wise, that's all i can say.
Message 11/53 18-Jan-01 @ 02:51 AM - RE: Orion Vs. Reason
hmm.... well integration into vst is a real kudos cos think what else you can mix it with - like ALL YOUR OUTBOARD with a asio2 low latency rack input module such as midiman delta's or IOIO or hoontech dsp with the dac rack etc...!!!!! - if you aint recording the outboard, set vst to 48k and get 3-5 ms latency... mix to dat via the audio rack stereo out, s/pdif etc... total !!!
Message 12/53 18-Jan-01 @ 02:54 AM - RE: Orion Vs. Reason
or minidisk for budget etc.. if you want to burn to cd then you gotta record all the outboard tho which is more time consuming - with the dosh you'll save on outboard fx using vst's fx etc you can get a good dat and do it all via digital transfer which all those multi-in devices also feature... i reckon thats preferable to filling up drives with tracks of outboard recordings... anyways.. lethal combination
Message 13/53 19-Jan-01 @ 11:07 AM - RE: Orion Vs. Reason
(this turned into a bit of a missive...)
Spent the last few days playing around with Reason at a friends house - I have to say I was pretty impressed, and I was fairly skeptical before. Just in case any of you are thinking of buying it, heres my noise.
The 500Mb of samples are impressive, the drum machine's better than any VSTi drum machine I've ever seen and the samplers pretty solid as well. The effects are nothing special but quite usable but above all it is really good fun (which is what it should be about anyway...)
There are a couple of big cons: first you can't seperate the sequencer window from the rest, you only get 10cm of sequencing space which is pathetic (although the sequencer is very novel and usable, a cross between Cubase and Reason). Also, they include Trebble and Bass in the Mixer but surely an EQ would have made more sense. As soon as you get a decent amount of stuff going everything starts to get a bit muffled.
Worth £300, hmm - at first I'd have said no (did say no quite loudly a little while ago) but it completely blows Fruityloops away which ships at £100 odd so maybe.
If they released the machines as VSTi instruments I'd buy them like a shot, as it is if you want to use it for anything other than fun you definatly need something else to go with it. Personally I'll wait until the next Cubase upgrade is out and if ReWire works I'll buy it.
Gotta get on with some work! I'll be sorry to leave this job, not many pay you to post on forums all day!! any employers out there beware adsl...
Spent the last few days playing around with Reason at a friends house - I have to say I was pretty impressed, and I was fairly skeptical before. Just in case any of you are thinking of buying it, heres my noise.
The 500Mb of samples are impressive, the drum machine's better than any VSTi drum machine I've ever seen and the samplers pretty solid as well. The effects are nothing special but quite usable but above all it is really good fun (which is what it should be about anyway...)
There are a couple of big cons: first you can't seperate the sequencer window from the rest, you only get 10cm of sequencing space which is pathetic (although the sequencer is very novel and usable, a cross between Cubase and Reason). Also, they include Trebble and Bass in the Mixer but surely an EQ would have made more sense. As soon as you get a decent amount of stuff going everything starts to get a bit muffled.
Worth £300, hmm - at first I'd have said no (did say no quite loudly a little while ago) but it completely blows Fruityloops away which ships at £100 odd so maybe.
If they released the machines as VSTi instruments I'd buy them like a shot, as it is if you want to use it for anything other than fun you definatly need something else to go with it. Personally I'll wait until the next Cubase upgrade is out and if ReWire works I'll buy it.
Gotta get on with some work! I'll be sorry to leave this job, not many pay you to post on forums all day!! any employers out there beware adsl...
Message 14/53 20-Jan-01 @ 12:07 PM - RE: Orion Vs. Reason
huh?... rewire works ok right now surely? - does for me
Message 15/53 22-Jan-01 @ 10:30 AM - RE: Orion Vs. Reason
Everything works fine, get Reasons rewire channels showing in Cubase etc. but reason doesn't seem to be syncing to Cubase, can't play or move the marker... Think I've been fucking around with the system files too much.
I notice you've been quite quiet about the whole Reason thing - what do you reckon to it? or do we need to wait until the review to find out? Personally I like it, gonna buy my own copy next month.
I notice you've been quite quiet about the whole Reason thing - what do you reckon to it? or do we need to wait until the review to find out? Personally I like it, gonna buy my own copy next month.
Message 16/53 22-Jan-01 @ 08:17 PM - RE: Orion Vs. Reason
Does Reason has much better soundquality than Orion ?
I really liked the way the Reason-modules are shown as instruments in a Rewire2 host (Nuendo), so u can edit everything from there.
This is what ex-Propellerhead webmaster 'Blank' had to say about Reason vs Orion:
"Orion is an entry-level toy. It's right down there with Fruity Loops, Hammerhead, Rubber Duck. Talk about "looking dated"..?? It looks like a Windows 3.1 relic. I've gotten pretty used to comparing apples and oranges around here, but you're comparing apples and breadcrumbs. If Reason was a girl, Orion would be an inflatable doll. And whatever "Pro" refers to, I doubt that it's more than the deluxe doll with extra lubricant."
I really liked the way the Reason-modules are shown as instruments in a Rewire2 host (Nuendo), so u can edit everything from there.
This is what ex-Propellerhead webmaster 'Blank' had to say about Reason vs Orion:
"Orion is an entry-level toy. It's right down there with Fruity Loops, Hammerhead, Rubber Duck. Talk about "looking dated"..?? It looks like a Windows 3.1 relic. I've gotten pretty used to comparing apples and oranges around here, but you're comparing apples and breadcrumbs. If Reason was a girl, Orion would be an inflatable doll. And whatever "Pro" refers to, I doubt that it's more than the deluxe doll with extra lubricant."
Message 17/53 23-Jan-01 @ 09:01 AM - RE: Orion Vs. Reason
If dance music was all that I did, I have a full on go with Reason, its just so well done !
Message 18/53 23-Jan-01 @ 11:55 AM - RE: Orion Vs. Reason
"Orion is an entry-level toy. It's right down there with Fruity Loops, Hammerhead, Rubber Duck. Talk about "looking dated"..?? It looks like a Windows 3.1 relic..."
Ouch!
What a git. And Reasons not a toy? (more expensive and sophisticated I'll grant you). Oh right, BK's going to be producing his next chart topping anthem in Reason!!?
I doubt it somehow.
Ouch!
What a git. And Reasons not a toy? (more expensive and sophisticated I'll grant you). Oh right, BK's going to be producing his next chart topping anthem in Reason!!?
I doubt it somehow.
Message 19/53 24-Jan-01 @ 03:34 PM - RE: Orion Vs. Reason
oh i am sure professional tracks can be produced with Reason, also with Orion, and loads of other tools...it's just how good you are using them...
about "Also, they include Trebble and Bass in the Mixer but surely an EQ would have made more sense. As soon as you get a decent amount of stuff going everything starts to get a bit muffled. "
that's called a 2-band EQ, and things getting muffled has nothing to do with Reason, but with creating a bad mix...you have to give sounds their own frequency-space to keep the mix clear and punchy...use a parametric EQ and the filters to do this with more detail than the 2band EQ in the mixer....
anyway: Reason runs a lot smoother on my system than Orion, and i like Reason's rack-interface better because i am used to the hardware-metaphor. Other people might like Orion better.
I know i don't like a tool that re-packages a drum-module with a new skin and some new samples and calls it a new drum-module....i create my own samples so why do i need that?
For each his/hers own, but orion is definately cheaper than reason....
Olaf
about "Also, they include Trebble and Bass in the Mixer but surely an EQ would have made more sense. As soon as you get a decent amount of stuff going everything starts to get a bit muffled. "
that's called a 2-band EQ, and things getting muffled has nothing to do with Reason, but with creating a bad mix...you have to give sounds their own frequency-space to keep the mix clear and punchy...use a parametric EQ and the filters to do this with more detail than the 2band EQ in the mixer....
anyway: Reason runs a lot smoother on my system than Orion, and i like Reason's rack-interface better because i am used to the hardware-metaphor. Other people might like Orion better.
I know i don't like a tool that re-packages a drum-module with a new skin and some new samples and calls it a new drum-module....i create my own samples so why do i need that?
For each his/hers own, but orion is definately cheaper than reason....
Olaf
Message 20/53 26-Jan-01 @ 07:49 AM - RE: Orion Vs. Reason
I have to say I love Orion. Yes Reason has some fancy features but it took me 2 of those annoying demo session to understand how to sequence. Orion is easy to use which to me means I can concentrate on making some music.
I used Cakewalk for 3 years and made about 10,00 loops and 4 songs. Sounds Familiar?
I made 8 songs in the last 4 months with Orion.
The sound quality of the Reason is better out of the box but you can’t change any of the modules!
Orion can sound much better than Reason with a few good VSTi plugins. Pro52, Electron, Ultrafunk reverb, a good compressor, a couple of quality sample CD’s and things are starting to do just nicely.
Ops and a bit of production knowledge would go a miss!!
Some may call it a toy but its great fun to use on a plane to Japan! Couldn’t do that with my outboard gear.
I used Cakewalk for 3 years and made about 10,00 loops and 4 songs. Sounds Familiar?
I made 8 songs in the last 4 months with Orion.
The sound quality of the Reason is better out of the box but you can’t change any of the modules!
Orion can sound much better than Reason with a few good VSTi plugins. Pro52, Electron, Ultrafunk reverb, a good compressor, a couple of quality sample CD’s and things are starting to do just nicely.
Ops and a bit of production knowledge would go a miss!!
Some may call it a toy but its great fun to use on a plane to Japan! Couldn’t do that with my outboard gear.
Message 21/53 30-Jan-01 @ 03:31 PM - RE: Orion Vs. Reason
The chorus & distortion units in Reason are totally unusable for me!
I think Pheads should have put a little more effort into the effect-section in Reason!
The subtractor-synth is pretty good, but without a decent chorus-fx you cant get that phat leads out of it.
Its best for basses & such.
And the sampler doesnt support multilayering. Pretty lame!
I think Pheads should have put a little more effort into the effect-section in Reason!
The subtractor-synth is pretty good, but without a decent chorus-fx you cant get that phat leads out of it.
Its best for basses & such.
And the sampler doesnt support multilayering. Pretty lame!
Message 22/53 30-Jan-01 @ 09:42 PM - RE: Orion Vs. Reason
Tom: You should connect the distortion and chorus directly to the machine, not sending it thru the mixer....
Message 23/53 31-Jan-01 @ 06:10 PM - RE: Orion Vs. Reason
Ofcourse i use them as inserts. (although i sometimes use the chorus in Reason as send)
Message 24/53 31-Jan-01 @ 07:21 PM - RE: Orion Vs. Reason
heheh heheeeeee.. received my UPS shipping order for Reason tonight, courtesy of propellerheads... ok, i admit they gave it to me, but i did them a favour in return.. i'll try to be fair. - ;]
Message 25/53 02-Feb-01 @ 04:17 PM - RE: Orion Vs. Reason
"that's called a 2-band EQ, and things getting muffled has nothing to do with Reason, but with creating a bad mix...you have to give sounds their own frequency-space to keep the mix clear and punchy...use a parametric EQ and the filters to do this with more detail than the 2band EQ in the mixer...."
thanks for the info mol8292 but I'm well aware of the mixing concept. My point was that a Freq/Q/Gain EQ would have been much more useful... no - convenient for creating a better mix than a trebble/bass control. And yes I know there's an EQ 'effect' unit but I personally like to tweak each channel (ie each drum noise) and I can imagine applying a seperate EQ to each drum output in reason could be fiddly.
I put a simple 'noise' track together in reason and mixed it as best I could - timeconsuming and didn't sound too good. Then, streamed the output straight into cubase as 15 stereo channels, spent a *couple of minutes* mixing it up using nothing but the built in EQ and it sounded much much better. But there again I guess it comes down to personal preference...
thanks for the info mol8292 but I'm well aware of the mixing concept. My point was that a Freq/Q/Gain EQ would have been much more useful... no - convenient for creating a better mix than a trebble/bass control. And yes I know there's an EQ 'effect' unit but I personally like to tweak each channel (ie each drum noise) and I can imagine applying a seperate EQ to each drum output in reason could be fiddly.
I put a simple 'noise' track together in reason and mixed it as best I could - timeconsuming and didn't sound too good. Then, streamed the output straight into cubase as 15 stereo channels, spent a *couple of minutes* mixing it up using nothing but the built in EQ and it sounded much much better. But there again I guess it comes down to personal preference...
Message 26/53 04-Feb-01 @ 12:36 AM - RE: Orion Vs. Reason
Reading the review of Reason in this months future music I noticed they had
"Alternatively - Native instruments Reaktor". No mention of Orion at all. Nice one guys, your finger on the pulse as ever!
"Alternatively - Native instruments Reaktor". No mention of Orion at all. Nice one guys, your finger on the pulse as ever!
Message 27/53 04-Feb-01 @ 06:17 PM - RE: Orion Vs. Reason
well orion probably dont buy advertising heh heh -
Message 28/53 08-Feb-01 @ 09:22 PM - RE: Orion Vs. Reason
mitub,
I agree that in-line parametric EQs in the Reason mixer channels would have been ideal, but in your example of drum noise, etc., it's fairly easy to route individual ReDrum channels to seperate EQ units, then to individual mixer channels. In fact, you could set up a default Reason song that had this rack arrangement, with the EQ units nicely organized under a dedicated ReDrum mixer.
As an experement, I did just that, with 10 dedicated parametric EQ units, one for each drum channel. It took me about 5 minutes to set up, including naming the EQ units to represent the drum sounds.
Of couse, your Cubase solution is valid as well, and the Cubase mixer channels are much more powerful than the Reason mixer channels. I just wanted to state that it is possible (and not overly difficult) to get a good mix with Reason alone.
7String
I agree that in-line parametric EQs in the Reason mixer channels would have been ideal, but in your example of drum noise, etc., it's fairly easy to route individual ReDrum channels to seperate EQ units, then to individual mixer channels. In fact, you could set up a default Reason song that had this rack arrangement, with the EQ units nicely organized under a dedicated ReDrum mixer.
As an experement, I did just that, with 10 dedicated parametric EQ units, one for each drum channel. It took me about 5 minutes to set up, including naming the EQ units to represent the drum sounds.
Of couse, your Cubase solution is valid as well, and the Cubase mixer channels are much more powerful than the Reason mixer channels. I just wanted to state that it is possible (and not overly difficult) to get a good mix with Reason alone.
7String
Message 29/53 09-Feb-01 @ 11:40 AM - RE: Orion Vs. Reason
7String
Agreed. Having used it quite a lot in the last week I'm starting to come round to the 'Reason' working methods - far too much time spent in the land of Cubase and Cakewalk me thinks... But no, Trebble/Bass controls? I just don't see me using them very much. Personal pref I guess.
It was only a small point in the first place, over all I've managed to get some really pleasing sounds (well, to my ears anyway!).
Agreed. Having used it quite a lot in the last week I'm starting to come round to the 'Reason' working methods - far too much time spent in the land of Cubase and Cakewalk me thinks... But no, Trebble/Bass controls? I just don't see me using them very much. Personal pref I guess.
It was only a small point in the first place, over all I've managed to get some really pleasing sounds (well, to my ears anyway!).
Message 30/53 09-Feb-01 @ 11:32 PM - RE: Orion Vs. Reason
I still think orion is in the lead. I've been using Reason demo for 30-40 minutes at a time, on the train on the way home from work, and I think it's way too fiddly. With Orion, I'd worked out how to use it in about 10 mins, but I can't get anywhere with Reason! The amount of shite on screen means you can't see everything at once, the sequencer is in a one inch window at the bottom of the screen, and that virtual cabling bollox is a mess as soon as you hook up a few things. It may look good but so what? Orion looks a bit crap, but it gets the job done and it sounds good. I was amazed how solid the clock is on it as well, I can record several minute-long tracks on Orion and whack it into vst and it's still bang on time at the end. This was a revelation for me, cos I can remember on my first system about 3 years ago I had a crack of Rebirth and I was importing audio into a version of cubasis that came with my sound card, and it would go out of time after about 4 bars!! It is completely rock. I suspect that Reason will be very good in this area as well, but I haven't been able to test that yet. It's got some nice sounds, and the demo tracks sound very impressive for something done with s/ware only, but the whole user interface really puts me off. I was reading the online help on the demo for about 20 mins on the train tonight and I still haven't worked out how to program a sequnce on the sampler, the help is crap anyway. Might be something to do with having a few pints at lunchtime though 
but I certainly wouldn't shell out that much cash for Reason - you can get Reaktor for an extra 50 quid, and that pisses on anything!
-Ed
but I certainly wouldn't shell out that much cash for Reason - you can get Reaktor for an extra 50 quid, and that pisses on anything!-Ed
Message 31/53 10-Feb-01 @ 09:49 AM - RE: Orion Vs. Reason
I think the user interface is a matter of taste. To me it's the opposite way around. I think reason is far more easier to use than orion. It just works like any hardware synth and once you get the cabling sorted out it's really nice. For example at first I was pissed off that there was no stereo delay.. well it was actually no prob. I just linked too delay units on one aux bus and there, a stereo delay! I could even add a filter or phaser on the end of the chain to make it even more interesting sounding. I think this is one of the best things in reason - everything is so simple and logical.. you can really concentrate on music making. I also like the sequencer. You can very easily record melodies with your keyboard if you use the auto quantize option.. no need to adjust quantize afterwards. Just one record and you've got a great melody running there. The do a second run and tweak filter settings or whatever.. Very simple and easy. I know reason is expensive but it really shows in the design and overall quality of the program. For the price and functionality it's actually one of the best complete music making solutions out there. The sound quality is another factor I'm not goint to comment too much. I know I've got some great sounds out of it.
Message 32/53 10-Feb-01 @ 05:11 PM - RE: Orion Vs. Reason
one thing to consider, this is Reason V1.... who knows what they come with next version... (the sequwencer does have an 'expand' button to make it bigger, but for me the fact it cannot strech wider is the problem) - however, you can sequence it from cubase etc so you dont have to use internal seq'
Message 33/53 10-Feb-01 @ 08:21 PM - RE: Orion Vs. Reason
spent another hour with it tonight, and i have to say, for the samplists out there especially those who like to mess with loops, the REXPLAYER units you can add into the rack are superb... in fact 300 quid for what they do for you with loops is probably worth it alone to compliment your sampler in a hardware mix with a decent 24/96 dynamic audio out to route to the mix board... each step of the slices can be sequenced and each step can be adjusted for pitch, pan position, level & more importantly decay - so take a guitar loop recycle it into 16ths slices, load it into REXPLAYER,then you can trim the decay pan & volume of all the little riff chops and adjust the feel from subtly to radically with the loop.. the whole lot then has an amp env & filter env, lfo section all with a hipass12/lopass12&24/bandpass12/& notch - i realise many top end samplers will do this etc, but onscreen it is soooo easy and if you dont have a sampler this opens up a whole new world for your sample loops wether drums, riff's or whatever...
I must admit, that whilst i've always understood the principals behind recycle files i never used them before... but i'm a convert now that's for sure !!!... especially for like disco house acid jazz, drum&bass etc etc. you can take a funky guitar riff, adjust the slices to create different offbeats and 'palmed' notes where you want them etc then stuff it inot a nice thin filter like thru an old gramaphone and sweep it across a pattern etc.. wicked stuff...
The other thing I noticed tonight is just how solid the sequencer is... very tight!...
so... lets say you had VST & some s/w synths & some outboard... just adding REASON in comparison to what 300 quid will buy you hardware-wise would to my mind be a huge advantage AS A TOOL... think of it like that as opposed to 'i need a whole s/w setup' - no, don't think of it like that, (and how it is usually discussed/reviewed)... sure it'll do that.. you could easily master hardhouse & other club styles, garage, drum&bass,trance etc on REASON no probs... but i'm looking at it here as a studio TOOL - and in that respects it'll add bags of power to your studio for samples & loops alone.... so if you are a hardware man, aqnd 'pooh' at the main idea that reason is a s/w synth suite, also look at it for sample-techniques... this'll frankly be probably more creative that a real sampler... certainly it is fast to 'intuit'... i aint checked the help pages yet..
still not saying as a complete stand alone 's/w music-making suite' Reason is more 'powerful' that Orion.... just to check Reason (and Orion) differently when evaluating them, cos there is more ways to kill a pig than stuffing strawberries up it's arse.
I must admit, that whilst i've always understood the principals behind recycle files i never used them before... but i'm a convert now that's for sure !!!... especially for like disco house acid jazz, drum&bass etc etc. you can take a funky guitar riff, adjust the slices to create different offbeats and 'palmed' notes where you want them etc then stuff it inot a nice thin filter like thru an old gramaphone and sweep it across a pattern etc.. wicked stuff...
The other thing I noticed tonight is just how solid the sequencer is... very tight!...
so... lets say you had VST & some s/w synths & some outboard... just adding REASON in comparison to what 300 quid will buy you hardware-wise would to my mind be a huge advantage AS A TOOL... think of it like that as opposed to 'i need a whole s/w setup' - no, don't think of it like that, (and how it is usually discussed/reviewed)... sure it'll do that.. you could easily master hardhouse & other club styles, garage, drum&bass,trance etc on REASON no probs... but i'm looking at it here as a studio TOOL - and in that respects it'll add bags of power to your studio for samples & loops alone.... so if you are a hardware man, aqnd 'pooh' at the main idea that reason is a s/w synth suite, also look at it for sample-techniques... this'll frankly be probably more creative that a real sampler... certainly it is fast to 'intuit'... i aint checked the help pages yet..
still not saying as a complete stand alone 's/w music-making suite' Reason is more 'powerful' that Orion.... just to check Reason (and Orion) differently when evaluating them, cos there is more ways to kill a pig than stuffing strawberries up it's arse.
Message 34/53 11-Feb-01 @ 09:10 PM - RE: Orion Vs. Reason
k, don't forget to post a tune u made with Reason if you can
so we can all listen to it/ Thanks!
so we can all listen to it/ Thanks!
Message 35/53 13-Feb-01 @ 12:55 AM - RE: Orion Vs. Reason
man i wont have time to do a 'tune' - gotta finish the new site - cant even do a review page for reason yet, just some days i get half an hour on it to discover new stuff... frankly what with this, Orion & other vst synths i am in a dilema about what to do with the studio...
Reason has a nice 'tone' to the drums also by the way, sorta warm, rnb beats sound nice and fat, the eq frequencies on the mixer although only two band is actually set out quite well by Prop'heads, it's quite good for that 'phatness' adder -
the problem is... screens, mousing, looking at small icons etc etc... i just couldnt do it all day, but then again, the power in the sample player & rexplayer & drumbox combines is pretty awesome... it'd be interesting to run that drum combi out of multiouts thru a rack of converters down to 12 bit and then into a decent mixer -
what you really want, and what i'd do if i decided to really build a studio around/incorporating Reason), is a 17" or above monitor set to 800x600 - then reason would be fullscreen-width with big controllers, everything would be big on the screen & easier to use. but only got a 15" screen running at 1024x768 and it is too small really for all-day woirk, this machine it is on is not for the studio only see.... (need a bigger screen, getting a 17" soon so we'll see how it looks on that, but without a doubt it was in Porp'heads minds to run Reason stand alone in a proper studio (not on the 'accounts & graphics' machine, but on it's own machine, then you can have the settings & screen estate you need for 'all-day' working (and viewing from further away when standing up and messing with other gear in the studio)
It has to be said, that reason or orion added into a hardware studio on a cheap dedicated pc (cheap cos nothing flashy added) and run it into hardware mix alongside synths would add big power to any studio wanting to upgrade it's 'sounds'... it'd cost at 'buy from the shops' prices (not building the pc etc) under 1000 for the pc & reason (less with orion) plus a multi-out device) and might be a better addition than a sampler say. cos if you want to run it AS a sampler youve got tons of ram, and huge storage. Then again that new VST sampler loads akai stuff off of cdrom drive... tought choices nowadays...
For me, you cant really beat a real user doing a live set flipping thru the hardware and running the mix live hands-on on the board... when that is flowing it is awesome to watch... i dunno... descisions eh?.. :-) - but i think we have to look beyond this 'hardware versus s/w studio' - nowadays BOTH can be there and integrate so well...with the right audio card, all thse s/w are playable and controllable in realtime just as you'd 'play' another hardware module from your master keyboard..... and after all, most of the hardware you buy now is bugged or 'fixed next update'... not all, but alot, so... the 'distinction' that was so easy to make before between 'hardware & s/w' is greying methinks ?...
and make no mistake, the sound of a good sample in reason, orion or a vsti drumbox, a drum snare cracking out of the speakers via a decent 24/96 card is JUST AS dynamic and full as from any hardware sampler when mixed on the mixer with the other outboard...
you don't go down the board soloing channels & thinking: "ah!.. that's a vsti,... ah!.. that's a 'real synth'..." - the sound is there, drums sounds are well crisp & trigger instantly... (ok ok, it AIN'T going to sound like an old s700, s950, w30 or emax etc... but... you can always add one of those. ;]
Reason has a nice 'tone' to the drums also by the way, sorta warm, rnb beats sound nice and fat, the eq frequencies on the mixer although only two band is actually set out quite well by Prop'heads, it's quite good for that 'phatness' adder -
the problem is... screens, mousing, looking at small icons etc etc... i just couldnt do it all day, but then again, the power in the sample player & rexplayer & drumbox combines is pretty awesome... it'd be interesting to run that drum combi out of multiouts thru a rack of converters down to 12 bit and then into a decent mixer -
what you really want, and what i'd do if i decided to really build a studio around/incorporating Reason), is a 17" or above monitor set to 800x600 - then reason would be fullscreen-width with big controllers, everything would be big on the screen & easier to use. but only got a 15" screen running at 1024x768 and it is too small really for all-day woirk, this machine it is on is not for the studio only see.... (need a bigger screen, getting a 17" soon so we'll see how it looks on that, but without a doubt it was in Porp'heads minds to run Reason stand alone in a proper studio (not on the 'accounts & graphics' machine, but on it's own machine, then you can have the settings & screen estate you need for 'all-day' working (and viewing from further away when standing up and messing with other gear in the studio)
It has to be said, that reason or orion added into a hardware studio on a cheap dedicated pc (cheap cos nothing flashy added) and run it into hardware mix alongside synths would add big power to any studio wanting to upgrade it's 'sounds'... it'd cost at 'buy from the shops' prices (not building the pc etc) under 1000 for the pc & reason (less with orion) plus a multi-out device) and might be a better addition than a sampler say. cos if you want to run it AS a sampler youve got tons of ram, and huge storage. Then again that new VST sampler loads akai stuff off of cdrom drive... tought choices nowadays...
For me, you cant really beat a real user doing a live set flipping thru the hardware and running the mix live hands-on on the board... when that is flowing it is awesome to watch... i dunno... descisions eh?.. :-) - but i think we have to look beyond this 'hardware versus s/w studio' - nowadays BOTH can be there and integrate so well...with the right audio card, all thse s/w are playable and controllable in realtime just as you'd 'play' another hardware module from your master keyboard..... and after all, most of the hardware you buy now is bugged or 'fixed next update'... not all, but alot, so... the 'distinction' that was so easy to make before between 'hardware & s/w' is greying methinks ?...
and make no mistake, the sound of a good sample in reason, orion or a vsti drumbox, a drum snare cracking out of the speakers via a decent 24/96 card is JUST AS dynamic and full as from any hardware sampler when mixed on the mixer with the other outboard...
you don't go down the board soloing channels & thinking: "ah!.. that's a vsti,... ah!.. that's a 'real synth'..." - the sound is there, drums sounds are well crisp & trigger instantly... (ok ok, it AIN'T going to sound like an old s700, s950, w30 or emax etc... but... you can always add one of those. ;]
Message 36/53 14-Feb-01 @ 08:33 AM - RE: Orion Vs. Reason
I agree with a lot of your points there k, esp about the distinction between hard / soft not being what it was...anyway people don't give a fuck on the dancefloor, it's only trainspotters like me who stand there and go "ooh, well that's clearly not a real 303, there's no way I'm dancing to this" hehehehe.
I'd go for more res on a bigger monitor though, I've noticed with a lot of software you can't fit it all on screen at once running 800 x 600, you keep having to scroll up and down, and it pisses me right off. I've just got a 19" cheap off a mate, and 1024 x 768 looks spot on. I've got 2 problems now though - I haven't really got enough room for the bloody thing, and I can't afford to buy Reason for at least a couple of months
-Ed
I'd go for more res on a bigger monitor though, I've noticed with a lot of software you can't fit it all on screen at once running 800 x 600, you keep having to scroll up and down, and it pisses me right off. I've just got a 19" cheap off a mate, and 1024 x 768 looks spot on. I've got 2 problems now though - I haven't really got enough room for the bloody thing, and I can't afford to buy Reason for at least a couple of months
-Ed
Message 37/53 15-Feb-01 @ 08:30 AM - RE: Orion Vs. Reason
of course it's not a good thing to use the mouse and keyboard to control reason...buy a decent hardware-controller (i use my rm1x for this, a doepfer pocketfader for controlling the mixer will come in later) to control everything you need..much easier...if you're short on cash you can assign all kinds of switches to your keyboard to do realtime muting and soloing, and pattern-switching...
furthermore, reason is very much samplebased, but the way you can mangle the samples makes it much more than just a simple sample-playback (think yamaha or EMU sample-engine) ..and don't forget the power of the Subtractor synth...
Olaf
furthermore, reason is very much samplebased, but the way you can mangle the samples makes it much more than just a simple sample-playback (think yamaha or EMU sample-engine) ..and don't forget the power of the Subtractor synth...
Olaf
Message 38/53 16-Feb-01 @ 05:51 PM - RE: Orion Vs. Reason
true, the subtractor synth is very good indeed. all in all for a s/w it's a superb package.
Message 39/53 17-Feb-01 @ 08:01 AM - RE: Orion Vs. Reason
Heard you can buy Reason for $280. Anyone know where?
Message 41/53 17-Feb-01 @ 06:11 PM - RE: Orion Vs. Reason
buy it direct - give the cash direct to the company in full.
Message 42/53 19-Feb-01 @ 12:58 PM - RE: Orion Vs. Reason
Hello!
Look-I've tried Reason and Orion as well, and all I can say is that Orion's Synths sound more FAT than the one's in Reason.
The sampler is equal.
Drums sound better in Reason, but the bass & the synths are far more better in Orion.
Reason looks more fancy-Sure-But what important is the quality of the sounds & music-and in the category Orion wins big time.
The editing is better in Reason too-the interface is more comfortable.
The Effects are equal too-IMHO.
Reason's built-in effects sound great, but the one's in Orion are interesting too...
In conclusion I think that both programs are great for advanced users, but I will give Reason 89% and Orion 94%.
That is my opinoin, you're free to express yours.
Orion vs. Reason..............
Look-I've tried Reason and Orion as well, and all I can say is that Orion's Synths sound more FAT than the one's in Reason.
The sampler is equal.
Drums sound better in Reason, but the bass & the synths are far more better in Orion.
Reason looks more fancy-Sure-But what important is the quality of the sounds & music-and in the category Orion wins big time.
The editing is better in Reason too-the interface is more comfortable.
The Effects are equal too-IMHO.
Reason's built-in effects sound great, but the one's in Orion are interesting too...
In conclusion I think that both programs are great for advanced users, but I will give Reason 89% and Orion 94%.
That is my opinoin, you're free to express yours.
Orion vs. Reason..............
Message 43/53 19-Feb-01 @ 01:46 PM - RE: Orion Vs. Reason
i think Fruityloops3 kicks Orion's butt bigtime...especially the sound-quality of FL3 is much better than orion imho...
still like reason the best because i'm used to the hardware metaphore..
Olaf
still like reason the best because i'm used to the hardware metaphore..
Olaf
Message 44/53 19-Feb-01 @ 10:07 PM - RE: Orion Vs. Reason
fruityloops 3 kicks both reason's and orion's ass in my opinion.i'm using it with midi and audio.quick creative results and great interface.As with orion just cos its cheap doesn't mean its crap.I hate to admit it but i am leaning from the hardware side to software,shit,spent all that money on hardware thats now worth f***
all.can always claim that it sounds more authentic though to gain peace of mind,although noisier.
all.can always claim that it sounds more authentic though to gain peace of mind,although noisier.
Message 45/53 20-Feb-01 @ 01:02 PM - RE: Orion Vs. Reason
FLoop3 only sounds better than Orion because most of the samples included are already compressed. Use the compressor carefully in Orion and you get just as good results. Floop3 and Orion both graet programs though!
Message 46/53 27-Feb-01 @ 08:57 PM - RE: Orion Vs. Reason
lofreq
Posts: 62
Link?: No link
File?: No file
After just scaning the posts, I saw no mention of VSTi support in Orion. This to me lends so much more flexibilty to Orion. Although I have not yet used Reason, I would guess its a bit more stable than Orion. Stability is really my only big complaint about Orion. And when you think about the fact that Orion is written by one person, its pretty damn good. Orion gets a big thumbs-up from me.
Message 47/53 02-Mar-01 @ 12:40 AM - RE: Orion Vs. Reason
i've been posting all day about
reason. i'm bored at work thinkin'
about the tune i wrote last night with
reason. i totally agree with whay k's
sayin'. i plan on integrating reason
into my setup. there are some limits
to using reason only, but fortunately i
don't have to do that. i haven't the
new version of cubase to try the
rewire function to run cubase with
reason...but that is the next step. it
didn't work when i tried it with rebirth
though...the sounds came out at like
half the volume. i hope it works with
reason 'cause i think i could really
get alot out of that program. i'd want
to use reason for drums and some
sampling hooked up to cubase to
run my midi synths, record audio,
and then multi track for the mixdown
to use some external fx and a mixing
board. that's how i see the future of
my studio. and truly, it's the shuffle
and ease of drum programming that
got me hooked on reason. haven't
really messed with the sampler
much.
reason. i'm bored at work thinkin'
about the tune i wrote last night with
reason. i totally agree with whay k's
sayin'. i plan on integrating reason
into my setup. there are some limits
to using reason only, but fortunately i
don't have to do that. i haven't the
new version of cubase to try the
rewire function to run cubase with
reason...but that is the next step. it
didn't work when i tried it with rebirth
though...the sounds came out at like
half the volume. i hope it works with
reason 'cause i think i could really
get alot out of that program. i'd want
to use reason for drums and some
sampling hooked up to cubase to
run my midi synths, record audio,
and then multi track for the mixdown
to use some external fx and a mixing
board. that's how i see the future of
my studio. and truly, it's the shuffle
and ease of drum programming that
got me hooked on reason. haven't
really messed with the sampler
much.
Message 48/53 03-Mar-01 @ 01:57 AM - RE: Orion Vs. Reason
I totally agree with you lofreq about Orion's VSTi support. I use the Pro-52, the PPG, and Reaktor in Orion and the results are great. Reason fanatics will realize how limiting it is after using it for a few months. If it supported VSTi's it would be a completely different product.
But I'm surprised that Orion isn't that stable for you. What kind of crashes do you have and what's your setup? I've been using it for months and it's rock solid for me. I can even have MIDI-OX open, mapping MIDI-IN data, and Wavelab open, recording the audio output of Orion while it plays. (And I just have a PIII-450 w/ 128MB RAM.)
But I'm surprised that Orion isn't that stable for you. What kind of crashes do you have and what's your setup? I've been using it for months and it's rock solid for me. I can even have MIDI-OX open, mapping MIDI-IN data, and Wavelab open, recording the audio output of Orion while it plays. (And I just have a PIII-450 w/ 128MB RAM.)
Message 49/53 04-Mar-01 @ 09:02 AM - RE: Orion Vs. Reason
Hi!
Yesterday, I worked with the full version of Reason in my friends studio and I can say two things about it:
1. Reason Demo sucks big time.
The worst demo I've ever saw.
It won't let you do anything.
2.The program is better than I thought.
Together with Rebirth-it is very good for Acid & Acid Techno.
It is also very suitble for Jungle & Drum and Bass.
The option of seeing the cables and the Gear is very neat.
It really gives you that studio feeling.
The sound is very good, too-although Orion's sound is more "Fat".
I can only say that both programs are great & you can make pro tracks with them both.
Fruity Loops 3 is also very good, but it is more suitble for commercial & Club music.
Yesterday, I worked with the full version of Reason in my friends studio and I can say two things about it:
1. Reason Demo sucks big time.
The worst demo I've ever saw.
It won't let you do anything.
2.The program is better than I thought.
Together with Rebirth-it is very good for Acid & Acid Techno.
It is also very suitble for Jungle & Drum and Bass.
The option of seeing the cables and the Gear is very neat.
It really gives you that studio feeling.
The sound is very good, too-although Orion's sound is more "Fat".
I can only say that both programs are great & you can make pro tracks with them both.
Fruity Loops 3 is also very good, but it is more suitble for commercial & Club music.
Message 50/53 05-Mar-01 @ 05:52 AM - RE: Orion Vs. Reason
oh!... i didn't try Orion Pro yet... so they got VSTi support in then already! ?? - great!! - that'd make it a total killer
?? - great!! - that'd make it a total killer
Message 51/53 12-Mar-01 @ 09:42 AM - RE: Orion Vs. Reason
duh..software and hardware are just tools....it's BS to say that one program is better in producing one genre of music than another..... it's all in your own creativity..
Olaf
Olaf
Message 52/53 12-Mar-01 @ 07:41 PM - RE: Orion Vs. Reason
reason & novation have joined up for a forthcoming special Reason controller keyboard - i think it has mains 12v usb & battery backup so you can also use it with a lappy - it has speakers i think too - designed as a portable go anywhere speaker 7 controller and master keyboard setup specially for Reason control. !!! - (about 250ukp they reckon when out - not a fixed quote that tho just a ruff estimate)
Message 53/53 26-Mar-01 @ 04:03 PM - RE: Orion Vs. Reason
Stasis
Posts: 37
Link?: No link
File?: No file
I've tried both extensively, I was planning on using them together by writing and arranging a 'basic' track in Reason, streaming to a wav to use as an audio track in Orion and then adding the advantages of vsti's. But I soon realized there was no point in even using Reason too much, it is very limited, I hate the samplers, the fx suck, the sequencer is a pain to use.....Orion sounds 'phatter', definitely. I dont understand the person who told me the sound quality in reason blows Orion's away. No way.
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