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Forums - Music tracks & feedback
Subject: Breathe
Original Message Date: 02-Aug-03 @ 04:17 AM - Breathe
Hey its me- I started thinking again 
I know, you're like "shit now we're gonna get spam every day"
but
I really want some techie advice on my new tune. A few people have listened to it and they liked it alot and it sounded pro. Then some dude said that it sounded terrible, needed completely remastered and the percussion was inaudible (sp ;D)..so I'm a little confused on the matter.
This is the 4th time around on this mix- I just added a bunch new elements and changed around the intro + outro...also made the major to minor transition flow a bit more smooth..etc etc. Lemme know what you think of the track and more importantly, what I can do to make it fit right.
Thank you!
Andrew
Track is at my other music page.
I know, you're like "shit now we're gonna get spam every day"
but
I really want some techie advice on my new tune. A few people have listened to it and they liked it alot and it sounded pro. Then some dude said that it sounded terrible, needed completely remastered and the percussion was inaudible (sp ;D)..so I'm a little confused on the matter.
This is the 4th time around on this mix- I just added a bunch new elements and changed around the intro + outro...also made the major to minor transition flow a bit more smooth..etc etc. Lemme know what you think of the track and more importantly, what I can do to make it fit right.
Thank you!
Andrew
Track is at my other music page.
Message 11/17 04-Aug-03 @ 04:40 PM - RE: Breathe
some compression on the outputs is ok if that's what it needs. i was asking if you mixed it while there was a compressor over the outputs.
there are people who do this, but generally i'd say mix it without any compression first (maybe on individual hits like kicks for sound sculpting) then see where it needs compression.
listening at 6:58 you can clearly hear everything else get louder as the kick disappears and then the synth noise at the end makes the snare disappear as well, which suggests you've put too much compression over the whole thing. i could take a guess at the release time you set, but that would be just too geek.
of course if this is what you want then that's fine.
there are people who do this, but generally i'd say mix it without any compression first (maybe on individual hits like kicks for sound sculpting) then see where it needs compression.
listening at 6:58 you can clearly hear everything else get louder as the kick disappears and then the synth noise at the end makes the snare disappear as well, which suggests you've put too much compression over the whole thing. i could take a guess at the release time you set, but that would be just too geek.
of course if this is what you want then that's fine.
Message 12/17 04-Aug-03 @ 05:29 PM - RE: Breathe
Hehe well I wanted punchey sounds..so that would be no attack and short release right?
Thank you all for your help and listens
But no..I wanted something more balanced.
I really need to read up on compression also..are there any articles or something elsewhere like "compression for retards"?
Thank you all for your help and listens
But no..I wanted something more balanced.
I really need to read up on compression also..are there any articles or something elsewhere like "compression for retards"?
Message 13/17 05-Aug-03 @ 04:53 AM - RE: Breathe
I'm working on it
fast attack will suck the punch out of a signal. That's why over-limiting your tracks will result in a loss off front-end waveform punch. You're sucking out fast transients with a fast attack, and the transients are where the punch is at (They also take up a lot of headroom.... that's why we limit our mixes to get em louder without clipping.... so it's a delicate balance).
A slow attack will allow the front of the waveform to sneak by before the compressor sucks down on the signal. The curve at which a compressor attacks and releases is what gives it its character. This is because you are actually altering the waveform of your, say, kick drum with the delayed attack of the compressor. You can see this if you apply your compressor plugin and look at what it does to the waveform. The faster your attack, the flatter your wave will be.
And the release time will contribute to how quickly the "sucked down" signal blooms back up to full volume. This contributes to that "pump", so experimenting with attack and release settings in context with the tempo and style of your song is crucial to proper compression.
Whether you're compressing a track or a mix (or submix), I recommend putting the threshold way low to start and put your attack on slowest and release on fastest settings. It will sound like shit. First shorten the attack slowly until you like the attack of your signal. Then slow down the release until it pumps up and down as you like. You may need to nudge up the threshold while fiddling with these, but finally put the threshold up to a reasonable level. This can vary anywhere from mild dynamics control to Radiohead drums. It's all a matter of taste at that point.
But for your main mix, don't compress or limit more than 3 dB of gain reduction or else it will sound amateurish. Maybe 5 dB with a GOOD limiter (i.e. Wave L1 or L2) for dance music.
But like Beds says, don't just compress because you can. Your ears work fine, you just don't trust them, but they will tell you if there's a problem with an individual sound. Is your kick drum punchy without compression? Yes? then leave it... if it's a bit flat, try some slow attack and alter it to how you like. Compressors are like ASDR envelopes in that way, so think of it that way you synth geek
Yeah, I gotta write a guide, and really will.
And I gotta actually listen to your track, and really will. Tomorrow
(heheh... day off)
psy
fast attack will suck the punch out of a signal. That's why over-limiting your tracks will result in a loss off front-end waveform punch. You're sucking out fast transients with a fast attack, and the transients are where the punch is at (They also take up a lot of headroom.... that's why we limit our mixes to get em louder without clipping.... so it's a delicate balance).
A slow attack will allow the front of the waveform to sneak by before the compressor sucks down on the signal. The curve at which a compressor attacks and releases is what gives it its character. This is because you are actually altering the waveform of your, say, kick drum with the delayed attack of the compressor. You can see this if you apply your compressor plugin and look at what it does to the waveform. The faster your attack, the flatter your wave will be.
And the release time will contribute to how quickly the "sucked down" signal blooms back up to full volume. This contributes to that "pump", so experimenting with attack and release settings in context with the tempo and style of your song is crucial to proper compression.
Whether you're compressing a track or a mix (or submix), I recommend putting the threshold way low to start and put your attack on slowest and release on fastest settings. It will sound like shit. First shorten the attack slowly until you like the attack of your signal. Then slow down the release until it pumps up and down as you like. You may need to nudge up the threshold while fiddling with these, but finally put the threshold up to a reasonable level. This can vary anywhere from mild dynamics control to Radiohead drums. It's all a matter of taste at that point.
But for your main mix, don't compress or limit more than 3 dB of gain reduction or else it will sound amateurish. Maybe 5 dB with a GOOD limiter (i.e. Wave L1 or L2) for dance music.
But like Beds says, don't just compress because you can. Your ears work fine, you just don't trust them, but they will tell you if there's a problem with an individual sound. Is your kick drum punchy without compression? Yes? then leave it... if it's a bit flat, try some slow attack and alter it to how you like. Compressors are like ASDR envelopes in that way, so think of it that way you synth geek
Yeah, I gotta write a guide, and really will.
And I gotta actually listen to your track, and really will. Tomorrow
(heheh... day off)
psy
Message 14/17 05-Aug-03 @ 05:25 AM - RE: Breathe
BS...honestly, man...
you really really really need to start relying on your own set of hearin thangs and not so much on others
I mean..some cat comes along and says it all needs to be changed?
that means one of two things:
1)He is full of shit (I cant see how someone could finish something and have it sound THAT bad)
2)you really need to work on your engineering. If it DID sound that bad and you didnt hear it, then yes, youve got a ways to go.
but if the answer is 1, then...he got you all distracted...ONE person's opinion and youre suddenly full of doubt?
you got it somewhere in HiFi? it really is hard to say anything about a mix at 24/22 (altho a solid mix is gonna sound solid no matter what)
you really really really need to start relying on your own set of hearin thangs and not so much on others
I mean..some cat comes along and says it all needs to be changed?
that means one of two things:
1)He is full of shit (I cant see how someone could finish something and have it sound THAT bad)
2)you really need to work on your engineering. If it DID sound that bad and you didnt hear it, then yes, youve got a ways to go.
but if the answer is 1, then...he got you all distracted...ONE person's opinion and youre suddenly full of doubt?
you got it somewhere in HiFi? it really is hard to say anything about a mix at 24/22 (altho a solid mix is gonna sound solid no matter what)
Message 15/17 05-Aug-03 @ 05:28 AM - RE: Breathe
oh. sorry..it IS in hifi...
ok..off to listen to some fuckin trance
ok..off to listen to some fuckin trance
Message 16/17 05-Aug-03 @ 05:32 AM - RE: Breathe
definitely sounds crushed
leave the compressor off the mains or only hit it LIGHTLY.
you REALLY need to update your descriptions...I wouldnt use the word hard or pounding...even by the farthest stretch of imagination...for this track.
BUT:
it does NOT sound "like shit"
IMO the kick should be a little more BUMP than SLAP. it almost just sounds like a little clap to me!
ok...it just broke down..if you do a fucking snare roll to come back in Im hitting stop
your sounds dont suck, and theres definitely emotion in this...but...(thank GOD you didnt do a snare roll)
when it comes back in its just FLAT! where are the DRUMS!!!!!
leave the compressor off the mains or only hit it LIGHTLY.
you REALLY need to update your descriptions...I wouldnt use the word hard or pounding...even by the farthest stretch of imagination...for this track.BUT:
it does NOT sound "like shit"
IMO the kick should be a little more BUMP than SLAP. it almost just sounds like a little clap to me!
ok...it just broke down..if you do a fucking snare roll to come back in Im hitting stop
your sounds dont suck, and theres definitely emotion in this...but...(thank GOD you didnt do a snare roll)
when it comes back in its just FLAT! where are the DRUMS!!!!!
Message 17/17 05-Aug-03 @ 07:14 PM - RE: Breathe
Thanks alot for listening influx!
I really will work at the stuff you said- I also know it's hard for you to listen to trance. But, I do think there was a snare roll where you said there wasn't
I really will work at the stuff you said- I also know it's hard for you to listen to trance. But, I do think there was a snare roll where you said there wasn't
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