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Subject: "I didn't know you couldn't......"
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Original Message 1/147 28-Apr-04 @ 09:41 PM Edit: 28-Apr-04 | 09:42 PM - "I didn't know you couldn't.......
this is absurd! what kind of fucking dolts do we have in the military anyhow?
Abuse Of Iraqi Prisoners Probed
April 28, 2004
Brig. Gen. Mark Kimmitt tells Dan Rather he is "appalled" by what happened in a Baghdad prison.
"If we can't hold ourselves up as an example of how to treat people with dignity and respect, we can't ask that other nations do that to our soldiers."
Brig. Gen. Mark Kimmitt
Army Reserve Staff Sgt. Chip Frederick, one of the soldiers now facing court martial, described to Rather what he saw in the Iraqi prison. (Photo: Staff Sgt. Chip Frederick )
(CBS) A few weeks ago, the U.S. Army announced that 17 soldiers in Iraq had been removed from duty, and six of them were facing court martial for mistreating Iraqi prisoners at Abu Ghraib, the infamous prison where Saddam Hussein and his henchmen tortured and executed Iraqis for decades.
60 Minutes II has obtained photographs of what was happening in Abu Ghraib. The photos show American soldiers mistreating Iraqi prisoners.
In his Wednesday morning briefing, Brig. Gen. Mark Kimmitt said the photographs may be shown in Dan Rather's report on 60 Minutes II, Wednesday at 8 p.m. ET/PT.
The discovery of the photographs by the Army led to an investigation which concluded that there were problems at the prison from the general in charge of the prison, to the military police guarding the prisoners. An investigation into abuse claims started in January, after a U.S. soldier came forward with allegations and evidence of abuse.
Kimmitt, in an interview conducted by satellite from Baghdad, told Correspondent Dan Rather: "We're appalled...these are our fellow soldiers, these are the people we work with every day, they represent us, they wear the same uniform as us, and they let their fellow soldiers down....We expect our soldiers to be treated well by the adversary, by the enemy...and if we can't hold ourselves up as an example of how to treat people with dignity and respect, we can't ask that other nations do that to our soldiers."
Kimmitt says even though charges have been filed against the six soldiers, a more general investigation continues into how prisoners are interrogated at the prison. One of the soldiers who is now facing court martial, Army Reserve Staff Sgt. Chip Frederick, described to Rather what he saw in the Iraqi prison.
"We had no support, no training whatsoever, and I kept asking my chain of command for certain things, rules and regulations, and it just wasn't happening," he said.
Frederick is charged with maltreatment, assault and indecent acts for posing for a photograph while sitting on top of a detainee, striking detainees and ordering detainees to strike each other, among other things.
Frederick wrote home to his family about the treatment of prisoners. He said in an e-mail: "We helped getting them to talk with the way we handle them. We've had a very high rate with our styles of getting them to break; they usually end up breaking within hours."
The pictures 60 Minutes II obtained show an Iraqi prisoner who, according to the U.S. Army, was told to stand on a box with his head covered and wires attached to his hands. That prisoner was told that if he fell off the box, he would be electrocuted. In another photograph, prisoners' bodies were stacked in a pyramid - one body had a slur written in English on his skin.
Despite the charges against American soldiers, Kimmitt says Americans shouldn't lose faith in the military – since the investigation is focused on a small number of soldiers, and doesn't reflect the conduct of the vast majority of U.S. forces.
"Frankly, I think all of us are disappointed by the actions of the few," says Kimmitt. "Every day we love our soldiers but frankly, somedays we're not always proud of our soldiers...It's a small, small minority of people we're talking about here, less than a dozen out of the 150,000 who are serving honorably and proudly over here....The Army is a values-based organization. We live by our values. Some of our soldiers every day die by our values and these acts that you see in these pictures may reflect the actions of individuals but by God it doesn't reflect my army."
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/04/27/60II/main614063.shtml
Message 2/147 29-Apr-04 @ 02:34 AM - RE:
imagine what's going on when we bust through a little exploded house and find some poor iraqi woman sitting there shaking with hate and fear.
bush says GO!!!!!
Message 3/147 29-Apr-04 @ 04:21 AM - RE:
come on. jesus christ.
come on.
Message 4/147 29-Apr-04 @ 05:22 AM - RE:
they figure there's well over a hundred reported-cases currently.
i guess that ain't bad since we got like 120,00 young bucks over there ready to rumble...rhumba etc.
Message 5/147 29-Apr-04 @ 05:24 AM - RE:
not us on them.
Message 6/147 29-Apr-04 @ 08:25 AM Edit: 29-Apr-04 | 08:26 AM - RE:
come on. jesus christ.
come on."
I'm curious.... what's so wrong with the logic in the premise he put forth?
seriously? what? cause you'd ask yourself WWJD and you think he wouldn't take a piece of that.... that US soldiers have the same drive and motivation to be a good, humane person? I'm sorry, but that clearly isn't the case... and I thank him for bringing this to light... cause I haven't thought of that. I remember hearing about it, but it didn't resonate with me until I considered it in the perspective he put forth.
Those are "our own people"... Americans. They fight on "our team". How hard could it be to take another person's life, when you have no remorse for taking sex from someone? I have dignitiy and respect for my fellow beings.... and its not a quantum leap of logic to imagine what someone with such a blatant lack of regard for other living beings can do to another, especially when considering that those figures aren't just some manifestation of the mind. That shit's happening there as I type....female soldiers are having their womanhood liberated, while women and children are being sniped from 300 meters.
Message 7/147 29-Apr-04 @ 09:50 AM - RE:
Message 8/147 29-Apr-04 @ 02:43 PM - RE:
if you can't even count on a small group of aesthetotechnicians having an awareness, what hope the culture at large? *despair*
Message 9/147 29-Apr-04 @ 08:22 PM - RE:
Yeah, I do also know a few of them. They are great people and the fact that you can make such a generalized statement is insulting, in my opinion at least.
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