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Forums - The lounge
Subject: "Stop gay marriage, click here"
Original Message Date: 18-May-04 @ 08:25 PM - "Stop gay marriage, click here"
this is an ad that runs on the top of Matt Drudge's site... how nice and accepting of those "loving' christians....
Message 11/33 19-May-04 @ 04:51 AM - RE:
quite frankly i'm not sure why gay people would want to get married......
or anyone for that matter......but having been there twice myself....i guess it's just part of human nature.
almost everyone will experience it at some point in their lives.
the need and desire to couple with someone on the most deep, emotional,
spiritual, sexual, economic, legal, and religious manner of all.
and then...there you are> married.
and if you mix dna....baby we got children!
and wow. that's just kinda permanent there what you did.
lotsa big stuff...houses...kid is now 6 foot plus and convicted of a crime he didn't do.....daughter is a waitress and free-lance artist struggling to survive.
i mean...lotsa stuff happens over the years.
and it's very very personal.
for me....quite personally...i think marriage should be outlawed.
unions between people should be spiritual and based on emotional/physical needs and when those original needs no longer fit the current circumstances...i say separation should not require painful legal wranglings and procedures to achieve dissolution.
but who knows?
i guess people are convinced it builds strong bones and stronger institutions....
the main one, of course, being the family (a little flag-wave here please).
i don't know...i've worked in a lot of people's homes and for some pretty decent durations during these last 20 years...and one sees a lot of things closely.
i've also worked in so-called "married" gay couples homes and even though i'm sure their situations weren't officially sanctioned by church and state....
these relationships can be very solid and lasting.
whether they should get tax-breaks and all that>
plus be afforded the same rights as straight couples
to call the cops when their wife gets abusive....
i simply DON'T KNOW!!!!
but i think where conservative america is concerned... it's
1) ungodly in THEIR eyes.
and
2) since everyone is capable of petty jealosy etc....they may be upset by the fact that you might see two quite substantial bread-winners
(especially in male couples) getting tax-breaks while experiencing none of the burdens that normal families incure (children).
again...I DON'T KNOW.
in this case....i will say i've never even TRIED to examine their arguments.
i'm guessing these are often the same yuks who naturally hate iraqis or anyone that lives "down-the-hill" from them.
but i think it's something bush is VERY worried about....and well.....
i hope it keeps him up at night.
he's such a weirdo.
i wonder if he just keeps thinking to himself who he might go after next?
always the enemy.
vigilant. never resting. true. determined. strong. unwavering.
zzzzzzzzzzzzz.
or anyone for that matter......but having been there twice myself....i guess it's just part of human nature.
almost everyone will experience it at some point in their lives.
the need and desire to couple with someone on the most deep, emotional,
spiritual, sexual, economic, legal, and religious manner of all.
and then...there you are> married.
and if you mix dna....baby we got children!
and wow. that's just kinda permanent there what you did.
lotsa big stuff...houses...kid is now 6 foot plus and convicted of a crime he didn't do.....daughter is a waitress and free-lance artist struggling to survive.
i mean...lotsa stuff happens over the years.
and it's very very personal.
for me....quite personally...i think marriage should be outlawed.
unions between people should be spiritual and based on emotional/physical needs and when those original needs no longer fit the current circumstances...i say separation should not require painful legal wranglings and procedures to achieve dissolution.
but who knows?
i guess people are convinced it builds strong bones and stronger institutions....
the main one, of course, being the family (a little flag-wave here please).
i don't know...i've worked in a lot of people's homes and for some pretty decent durations during these last 20 years...and one sees a lot of things closely.
i've also worked in so-called "married" gay couples homes and even though i'm sure their situations weren't officially sanctioned by church and state....
these relationships can be very solid and lasting.
whether they should get tax-breaks and all that>
plus be afforded the same rights as straight couples
to call the cops when their wife gets abusive....
i simply DON'T KNOW!!!!
but i think where conservative america is concerned... it's
1) ungodly in THEIR eyes.
and
2) since everyone is capable of petty jealosy etc....they may be upset by the fact that you might see two quite substantial bread-winners
(especially in male couples) getting tax-breaks while experiencing none of the burdens that normal families incure (children).
again...I DON'T KNOW.
in this case....i will say i've never even TRIED to examine their arguments.
i'm guessing these are often the same yuks who naturally hate iraqis or anyone that lives "down-the-hill" from them.
but i think it's something bush is VERY worried about....and well.....
i hope it keeps him up at night.
he's such a weirdo.
i wonder if he just keeps thinking to himself who he might go after next?
always the enemy.
vigilant. never resting. true. determined. strong. unwavering.
zzzzzzzzzzzzz.
Message 12/33 19-May-04 @ 05:56 AM - RE:
prime example of the "less govt" thing, no?
leave them the hell alone! theyre NOT fcking hurtin anyone. period
altho..I agree...why the hell get married? ask for the permission of the state? that shit!
leave them the hell alone! theyre NOT fcking hurtin anyone. period
altho..I agree...why the hell get married? ask for the permission of the state? that shit!
Message 13/33 20-May-04 @ 09:54 AM - RE:
The only people who care about marriage are gays. Straights either don't bother getting married or get divorced later. 50% of catholic priests are gay. What's the fuss about?
Message 14/33 20-May-04 @ 11:46 AM - RE:
exactly - how many people in the USA especialy stand up in this so-called 'serious' ceremony which is semi-religious (they pretend they are making a vow before God), and for the 2nd or 3rd or even 5th or 6th time say "Till death do us part" - in the USA especialy their 'stars' use marriage and diveroce as nothing more than a publicity tool frankly./.. prats like J-LO etc.
what's the point of saying those vows if you can just divorce someone and say it all over again - it's a joke as it is.
either you DO beleive in God, in which case you broke your promise and then what's the point of saying it again, or if you dont beleive in it why bother saying it in the first place-
the only answer i can see is there needs to be honesty and they need a second type of 'marriage' which is what it is, simply a legal business arrangement drawn up by lawyers with no 'religious' connotations or involvement, because that's all it is really in most cases, people just want the ceremony purely as a social event.
the only caveat to this imo would be where one partner became violent and the other had to escape, fair enuff, domestic violence is a terrible thing, worse on the victim than many 'crimes' which are considered worse... But most people divorce because they simply dont like each other any more the same way as when they married
i was divorced - I'm not bitter at all about it, just one of those things, but it made me consider the whole thing alot, and i cant see the point of re-marrying even tho I might have thought about it - if if fails then deal with it and accept the responsibility even if it wasnt your 'fault' or anyones 'fault' as in our case.
personaly i dont beleive in the west we marry for the right reasons alot of the time. - the formality of marriage & especialy the long period before of the engagement/courtship ritual that you see in what we laughingly call more 'primitive' cultures or 'less modern' cultures seems to have some sense to it imo.
it's a weird opinion to have i agree, because i'm in no way a prude or condone sexual liberation & activity (except just be careful), but I dunno, there's something rather logical about the way in more traditional culture that the couple is kept apart sexualy and forced to get to know each other as people gradualy after an initial attraction exists.
y'know the old classic one - a person gets married, they meet someone thru freinds or work, and because they cannot shag them cos they are married, they get to know the person as a friend over time bit by bit and discover that they have a bond with that person, and start to see that person as more close than their partner, tthey start to realise that they can talk to them easily, and feel a real empathy they dont have with their partner etc etc, and it carries on until the strain is too much to NOT be with that person... so, they get diveorced and re-marry that person - why not get it right in the first place?
it probably works better in rural cultures no doubt, but y'know what I mean?.... the involvement of the community in the marriage in those rural cultures makes the community also somewhat responsible for that marriage too perhaps. (I'm talking about the traditional Irish or Sicilian etc courtship period thing people used to do)
anyways, I think these so-called 'Christians' should shutup as long as they allow re-marrying after divorce basicaly.... either they do take their vow seriously or they dont, if they dont then who are they to sit in judgement of other people.
imo it's simple covetousness - they covet marriage, they want to 'keep it for themselves' & not allow others to have it, and that's all.... and from the yank christians in a country where alot of people get re-married 3 or 4 times, it's a joke.
but i guess it's ok as long as you're 'straight' - it's pathetic.
lol - what an irony - as i type this i hear shouting and screaming - go downstairs 2 floors and there's a fight going on between a bloke and his wife or gf wafting up the hall. - jesus christ almighty what a madhouse this place is i live - we've got a alcoholic looney in one flat and a fighting couple in the other, and that's just for the nearest apartments.
what's the point of saying those vows if you can just divorce someone and say it all over again - it's a joke as it is.
either you DO beleive in God, in which case you broke your promise and then what's the point of saying it again, or if you dont beleive in it why bother saying it in the first place-
the only answer i can see is there needs to be honesty and they need a second type of 'marriage' which is what it is, simply a legal business arrangement drawn up by lawyers with no 'religious' connotations or involvement, because that's all it is really in most cases, people just want the ceremony purely as a social event.
the only caveat to this imo would be where one partner became violent and the other had to escape, fair enuff, domestic violence is a terrible thing, worse on the victim than many 'crimes' which are considered worse... But most people divorce because they simply dont like each other any more the same way as when they married
i was divorced - I'm not bitter at all about it, just one of those things, but it made me consider the whole thing alot, and i cant see the point of re-marrying even tho I might have thought about it - if if fails then deal with it and accept the responsibility even if it wasnt your 'fault' or anyones 'fault' as in our case.
personaly i dont beleive in the west we marry for the right reasons alot of the time. - the formality of marriage & especialy the long period before of the engagement/courtship ritual that you see in what we laughingly call more 'primitive' cultures or 'less modern' cultures seems to have some sense to it imo.
it's a weird opinion to have i agree, because i'm in no way a prude or condone sexual liberation & activity (except just be careful), but I dunno, there's something rather logical about the way in more traditional culture that the couple is kept apart sexualy and forced to get to know each other as people gradualy after an initial attraction exists.
y'know the old classic one - a person gets married, they meet someone thru freinds or work, and because they cannot shag them cos they are married, they get to know the person as a friend over time bit by bit and discover that they have a bond with that person, and start to see that person as more close than their partner, tthey start to realise that they can talk to them easily, and feel a real empathy they dont have with their partner etc etc, and it carries on until the strain is too much to NOT be with that person... so, they get diveorced and re-marry that person - why not get it right in the first place?
it probably works better in rural cultures no doubt, but y'know what I mean?.... the involvement of the community in the marriage in those rural cultures makes the community also somewhat responsible for that marriage too perhaps. (I'm talking about the traditional Irish or Sicilian etc courtship period thing people used to do)
anyways, I think these so-called 'Christians' should shutup as long as they allow re-marrying after divorce basicaly.... either they do take their vow seriously or they dont, if they dont then who are they to sit in judgement of other people.
imo it's simple covetousness - they covet marriage, they want to 'keep it for themselves' & not allow others to have it, and that's all.... and from the yank christians in a country where alot of people get re-married 3 or 4 times, it's a joke.
but i guess it's ok as long as you're 'straight' - it's pathetic.
lol - what an irony - as i type this i hear shouting and screaming - go downstairs 2 floors and there's a fight going on between a bloke and his wife or gf wafting up the hall. - jesus christ almighty what a madhouse this place is i live - we've got a alcoholic looney in one flat and a fighting couple in the other, and that's just for the nearest apartments.
Message 15/33 20-May-04 @ 11:56 AM Edit: 20-May-04 | 12:12 PM - RE:
"what a madhouse this place is i live..." - then there's yourself 
(man I actually like this smilee)
(man I actually like this smilee)
Message 16/33 20-May-04 @ 02:14 PM - RE:
i got married the second time cause we had a son and after 7 years together....we would've been married by "common-law" anyway....plus the son wanted mommy and daddy to be married like all his school-friend's "good" parents.
and i did still love his mother enough for her to be my wife.
once the deal was sealed though it went south and fast.....yet took years to fully disintegrate.
the greatest pain occurred within my son.
we raised each other for the next 7 years and we're still learning what it's all about.
i think there should be even a third kind of marriage: one where 2 people say they love each other for life and do their damnedest to keep it so.
no permission...no contracts. just love and life on a daily basis.
hell....wanna ceremony? go for it. a symbol...such as a ring and shared names?
right on. knock yourselves out.
kids? keep it to 2 if you can...please!
oh...you happen to be of the same sex?
hmmmm......well...no objections from me.
i'm always either working or in my studio so i can't imagine how that could affect me.
just ain't none of my business.
and i did still love his mother enough for her to be my wife.
once the deal was sealed though it went south and fast.....yet took years to fully disintegrate.
the greatest pain occurred within my son.
we raised each other for the next 7 years and we're still learning what it's all about.
i think there should be even a third kind of marriage: one where 2 people say they love each other for life and do their damnedest to keep it so.
no permission...no contracts. just love and life on a daily basis.
hell....wanna ceremony? go for it. a symbol...such as a ring and shared names?
right on. knock yourselves out.
kids? keep it to 2 if you can...please!
oh...you happen to be of the same sex?
hmmmm......well...no objections from me.
i'm always either working or in my studio so i can't imagine how that could affect me.
just ain't none of my business.
Message 17/33 20-May-04 @ 06:08 PM - RE:
heh. true words.
if life were really on the table and all, you'd get to live it, then die and see all the consequences before you choose whether to bring someone else into it, but you don't.
it's like.. you trust people who ask you to make decisions or commit w/o the facts? i fucking don't.
heh. true words.
(and because i am the person who says what is obvious) this is, in fact, exactly the sort of behaviour i regard as intrinsically distrustful..
if life were really on the table and all, you'd get to live it, then die and see all the consequences before you choose whether to bring someone else into it, but you don't.
it's like.. you trust people who ask you to make decisions or commit w/o the facts? i fucking don't.
heh. true words.
(and because i am the person who says what is obvious) this is, in fact, exactly the sort of behaviour i regard as intrinsically distrustful..
Message 18/33 23-May-04 @ 08:01 PM - RE:
In Islam, we do not tolerate such a travesty.
Mohammed forbid this awful act long before it became fashionable. End of story really.
Mohammed forbid this awful act long before it became fashionable. End of story really.
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