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Forums - The lounge
Subject: The Arrogance of Originality???
Original Message Date: 30-Sep-04 @ 11:02 PM - The Arrogance of Originality???
"I think that this is an unavoidable situation given the reliance on digital audio tools for creating electronic music but it is no different than musicians being able to hear a Yamaha DX-7, Korg M-1 or an Arp 2600 on a recording except now they can hear plug-ins. Being aware of the tools used in a work of art is nothing new. I used to hang out with fine arts and film students who could trainspot a particular type of brush, medium or camera lens used in a work. The pressure to create sounds that have never been heard before and/or whose origins are undetectable reeks of a modernist notion of "originality". Originality is no longer a relevant aesthetic problem...we abandoned that idea a long time ago. I like the fact that tools have become part of the message...it can create very complex surfaces upon which to work."
Kim Cascone
-- founder of Silent Records and all around brilliant electronic music dude.
Whadya think?
Kim Cascone
-- founder of Silent Records and all around brilliant electronic music dude.
Whadya think?
Message 11/71 02-Oct-04 @ 04:39 PM - RE: The Arrogance of Originality???
"access to gear and time on my hands.."
"i like a nice tune now and then.."
"access to gear and time on my hands.."
"i like a nice tune now and then.."
"access to gear and time on my hands.."
aiiiieeeeeee!!!!!
so making music is part of your perception of delightful experience..
becoming a ~nihilist, the world makes a helluva lot more sense (like math w/ the "invention of zero")
oc i couldn't be a ~nihilist if i didn't feel that non-existence were the better course, but since i ~exist, i intend to use *my brilliant perspective*
to identify.. complications, misunderstandings.. things that make interaction function less smoothly..
and you ask me how i call it..
well.. electronic music.. would be better if the tech were derelict from a previous industrial culture and the power were solar..
people being in life to dance around? my objection to existence is the amount of harm consciously or unconsciously imposed.. the act in and of itself doesn't suggest anything bad, unless they're dancing on ants or somethnig.
all in all, imo my perspective is pretty predictable ;)
whether it's worthwhile to do?
giving kids a chance to get out of wherever they're holed up.. you are providing a forum for change, i would hope..
?? :p dance 'em up, but don't smile??
"i like a nice tune now and then.."
"access to gear and time on my hands.."
"i like a nice tune now and then.."
"access to gear and time on my hands.."
aiiiieeeeeee!!!!!
so making music is part of your perception of delightful experience..
becoming a ~nihilist, the world makes a helluva lot more sense (like math w/ the "invention of zero")
oc i couldn't be a ~nihilist if i didn't feel that non-existence were the better course, but since i ~exist, i intend to use *my brilliant perspective*
to identify.. complications, misunderstandings.. things that make interaction function less smoothly..and you ask me how i call it..
well.. electronic music.. would be better if the tech were derelict from a previous industrial culture and the power were solar..
people being in life to dance around? my objection to existence is the amount of harm consciously or unconsciously imposed.. the act in and of itself doesn't suggest anything bad, unless they're dancing on ants or somethnig.
all in all, imo my perspective is pretty predictable ;)
whether it's worthwhile to do?
giving kids a chance to get out of wherever they're holed up.. you are providing a forum for change, i would hope..
?? :p dance 'em up, but don't smile??
Message 12/71 02-Oct-04 @ 04:51 PM - RE: The Arrogance of Originality???
you're tripping e~ or you're new here.
i'm defintely not a nihilist....but i do like a nice fire now and then.
and you've obviously missed my daily exchanges with the ants here.
if only they could speak.
i'm defintely not a nihilist....but i do like a nice fire now and then.
and you've obviously missed my daily exchanges with the ants here.
if only they could speak.
Message 14/71 03-Oct-04 @ 02:36 AM - RE: The Arrogance of Originality???
e~
do you really think music's going to somehow create a better universe for kids...by somehow pointing to the varied and needless tragic misconceptions floating about in our every global corner of our social....political and hard-core physical realities?
i mean...yes...to some extent...but with this statement of yours:
quote>>>
giving kids a chance to get out of wherever they're holed up.. you are providing a forum for change, i would hope.. >>>> unquote....
do you really think kids working beats and synth-passgaes with reason or with loops on live are thinking they may be onto some sort of humanly liberating equation that might set us all free?
or do you think...as you so often see....that it's viewed as some vehicle for self-recognition, fame...fortune..etc?
i mean surely it can be viewed as both but insofar as kids are concerned...what do you think THEY'RE thinking?
you've said so yourself (quite a number of times)....you're pretty good at taking the long way round to say something....but if you're addressing me persoanlly...i wish you'd quite dancing round with your fucking silly shit sometimes.
i can only address your taking a stab at me if you actually take a stab....
aiiieeeeee...but ya gotta first stop being such a silly..
i mean...i know you were kind fo taking a piss and all.... but weren't you thinking about running for governor or something?
oh jeez....
let me know when you know.
influx...don't worry....you'll make a fine clapper one day.
do you really think music's going to somehow create a better universe for kids...by somehow pointing to the varied and needless tragic misconceptions floating about in our every global corner of our social....political and hard-core physical realities?
i mean...yes...to some extent...but with this statement of yours:
quote>>>
giving kids a chance to get out of wherever they're holed up.. you are providing a forum for change, i would hope.. >>>> unquote....
do you really think kids working beats and synth-passgaes with reason or with loops on live are thinking they may be onto some sort of humanly liberating equation that might set us all free?
or do you think...as you so often see....that it's viewed as some vehicle for self-recognition, fame...fortune..etc?
i mean surely it can be viewed as both but insofar as kids are concerned...what do you think THEY'RE thinking?
you've said so yourself (quite a number of times)....you're pretty good at taking the long way round to say something....but if you're addressing me persoanlly...i wish you'd quite dancing round with your fucking silly shit sometimes.
i can only address your taking a stab at me if you actually take a stab....
aiiieeeeee...but ya gotta first stop being such a silly..
i mean...i know you were kind fo taking a piss and all.... but weren't you thinking about running for governor or something?
oh jeez....
let me know when you know.
influx...don't worry....you'll make a fine clapper one day.
Message 15/71 03-Oct-04 @ 02:46 AM - RE: The Arrogance of Originality???
hey...cool name that.
but seriously...if you are truly saying what i think you're saying e~
then i really think it's going to take at least 4 to 5 pretty phenomenal songs from you per year to get the job done....plus an army of millions.
as for a forum for change....let me know when you hear of one.
but seriously...if you are truly saying what i think you're saying e~
then i really think it's going to take at least 4 to 5 pretty phenomenal songs from you per year to get the job done....plus an army of millions.
as for a forum for change....let me know when you hear of one.
Message 16/71 03-Oct-04 @ 03:49 AM - RE: The Arrogance of Originality???
errr...clay...what the hell was that?
I wasnt applauding errata attacking you. didnt even catch wind of that really. I was applauding his attitude. he has a good one
I wasnt applauding errata attacking you. didnt even catch wind of that really. I was applauding his attitude. he has a good one
Message 17/71 03-Oct-04 @ 04:19 AM - RE: The Arrogance of Originality???
Sometimes you just have to step back for a moment and say "Fuck all the intellectual wanking and flapping gums from motherfuckers that don't know shit about just digging inside and creating something from scratch that is your own." If it's yours, so what if it sounds like some preset? If you made it and you know the integrity is there, then others can just sit there and run their mouths al day. Fuck'em. Do your own thing, and let others talk about.
Ape
Ape
Message 18/71 03-Oct-04 @ 04:33 AM - RE: The Arrogance of Originality???
c'mon ape....coming from a world-class gum-flapper?
and not that you don't walk the talk as well....but this is an internet forum man.
we flap here.
and you know influx...i believe you when you say you didn't catch that e~
was taking a stab.
i'll just leave it that. and say i'm sorry.
as for the main contention here......okay well.....music is god. god is music.
and i like a nice tune now and then.......and yeah i like a nice tune so much i'm here constantly talking about nice tunes....my tunes...your tunes....and even shit tunes..and discussing music's transformational power....it's ability to use abstraction and metaphor and just pure raw sound to evoke life emotion thought and movement.
from beethoven to the beatles to the clash to today's electronic music.
and i'll flap it on that note.
now how about that?!?!?!
hey...welcome back e~
how ya been?
and not that you don't walk the talk as well....but this is an internet forum man.
we flap here.
and you know influx...i believe you when you say you didn't catch that e~
was taking a stab.
i'll just leave it that. and say i'm sorry.
as for the main contention here......okay well.....music is god. god is music.
and i like a nice tune now and then.......and yeah i like a nice tune so much i'm here constantly talking about nice tunes....my tunes...your tunes....and even shit tunes..and discussing music's transformational power....it's ability to use abstraction and metaphor and just pure raw sound to evoke life emotion thought and movement.
from beethoven to the beatles to the clash to today's electronic music.
and i'll flap it on that note.
now how about that?!?!?!
hey...welcome back e~
how ya been?
Message 19/71 03-Oct-04 @ 04:49 AM - RE: The Arrogance of Originality???
but i'm jazzed it's okay if something sounds like a preset....since there are some awful cool presets out there.
ya..ya...fuck'y'all!!!
just do yo thing!!
ya..ya...fuck'y'all!!!
just do yo thing!!
Message 20/71 03-Oct-04 @ 07:47 AM - RE: The Arrogance of Originality???
HUH?
Ok, so is xoxo's called "e-" ???
Or have I been unwittingly accused of something?
Welcome back? Did I go somewhere... ???
Shrug...
I'd agree pongoid, except, when I'm not making the tunes, I don't mind a little discussion about what they are, and how they effect us, and shit... so here's a bit.
And, to be clear... I'm not on some trip where I think what we do needs to amount to something profound. I remember a DJ I knew saying something like, "The party is the temple and I am the priest!" And I thought, "Shit dude, it's just beats!!!"
I do think what's happened with a lot of pop music is actually bad for the little spirits. Pop music is about copnsumption, and often music serves the same purpose as TV, to essentially allow for the temporary satisfaction of a party to keep the bugs from rising up or even noticing they're taken it up the ass.
Played a gig recently, new set, new music etc. Big party, and all these kids are high, I mean like ALL of 'em. And I'm thinking, "Look at these shits, tweaked out on music and lights and whatever's in their brains... maybe this isn't helping"
But then there's nothing wrong I think with taking a little pressure off the cooker every now and again.. .and ultimately there's not but right here right now... and if the immediate is a place where everyoone and everything is perfect and wonderful in just being in that moment, then I'm not sure there's anything less beautiful...
Kinda like an orgasm... in it's immediacy... where even if you've got a cold or a flu or somehting, when you are in that immediacy of experience you're no longer aware of the illness. You're no longer ill...
shrug.
Ok, tonight I'm just talking circles. shrug... maybe I got nothin'
e
Ok, so is xoxo's called "e-" ???
Or have I been unwittingly accused of something?
Welcome back? Did I go somewhere... ???
Shrug...
I'd agree pongoid, except, when I'm not making the tunes, I don't mind a little discussion about what they are, and how they effect us, and shit... so here's a bit.
And, to be clear... I'm not on some trip where I think what we do needs to amount to something profound. I remember a DJ I knew saying something like, "The party is the temple and I am the priest!" And I thought, "Shit dude, it's just beats!!!"
I do think what's happened with a lot of pop music is actually bad for the little spirits. Pop music is about copnsumption, and often music serves the same purpose as TV, to essentially allow for the temporary satisfaction of a party to keep the bugs from rising up or even noticing they're taken it up the ass.
Played a gig recently, new set, new music etc. Big party, and all these kids are high, I mean like ALL of 'em. And I'm thinking, "Look at these shits, tweaked out on music and lights and whatever's in their brains... maybe this isn't helping"
But then there's nothing wrong I think with taking a little pressure off the cooker every now and again.. .and ultimately there's not but right here right now... and if the immediate is a place where everyoone and everything is perfect and wonderful in just being in that moment, then I'm not sure there's anything less beautiful...
Kinda like an orgasm... in it's immediacy... where even if you've got a cold or a flu or somehting, when you are in that immediacy of experience you're no longer aware of the illness. You're no longer ill...
shrug.
Ok, tonight I'm just talking circles. shrug... maybe I got nothin'
e
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