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Forums - The lounge
Subject: "I didn't know you couldn't......"
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 ... 15
Original Message Date: 28-Apr-04 @ 09:41 PM Edit: 28-Apr-04 | 09:42 PM - "I didn't know you couldn't.......
this is absurd! what kind of fucking dolts do we have in the military anyhow?
Abuse Of Iraqi Prisoners Probed
April 28, 2004
Brig. Gen. Mark Kimmitt tells Dan Rather he is "appalled" by what happened in a Baghdad prison.
"If we can't hold ourselves up as an example of how to treat people with dignity and respect, we can't ask that other nations do that to our soldiers."
Brig. Gen. Mark Kimmitt
Army Reserve Staff Sgt. Chip Frederick, one of the soldiers now facing court martial, described to Rather what he saw in the Iraqi prison. (Photo: Staff Sgt. Chip Frederick )
(CBS) A few weeks ago, the U.S. Army announced that 17 soldiers in Iraq had been removed from duty, and six of them were facing court martial for mistreating Iraqi prisoners at Abu Ghraib, the infamous prison where Saddam Hussein and his henchmen tortured and executed Iraqis for decades.
60 Minutes II has obtained photographs of what was happening in Abu Ghraib. The photos show American soldiers mistreating Iraqi prisoners.
In his Wednesday morning briefing, Brig. Gen. Mark Kimmitt said the photographs may be shown in Dan Rather's report on 60 Minutes II, Wednesday at 8 p.m. ET/PT.
The discovery of the photographs by the Army led to an investigation which concluded that there were problems at the prison from the general in charge of the prison, to the military police guarding the prisoners. An investigation into abuse claims started in January, after a U.S. soldier came forward with allegations and evidence of abuse.
Kimmitt, in an interview conducted by satellite from Baghdad, told Correspondent Dan Rather: "We're appalled...these are our fellow soldiers, these are the people we work with every day, they represent us, they wear the same uniform as us, and they let their fellow soldiers down....We expect our soldiers to be treated well by the adversary, by the enemy...and if we can't hold ourselves up as an example of how to treat people with dignity and respect, we can't ask that other nations do that to our soldiers."
Kimmitt says even though charges have been filed against the six soldiers, a more general investigation continues into how prisoners are interrogated at the prison. One of the soldiers who is now facing court martial, Army Reserve Staff Sgt. Chip Frederick, described to Rather what he saw in the Iraqi prison.
"We had no support, no training whatsoever, and I kept asking my chain of command for certain things, rules and regulations, and it just wasn't happening," he said.
Frederick is charged with maltreatment, assault and indecent acts for posing for a photograph while sitting on top of a detainee, striking detainees and ordering detainees to strike each other, among other things.
Frederick wrote home to his family about the treatment of prisoners. He said in an e-mail: "We helped getting them to talk with the way we handle them. We've had a very high rate with our styles of getting them to break; they usually end up breaking within hours."
The pictures 60 Minutes II obtained show an Iraqi prisoner who, according to the U.S. Army, was told to stand on a box with his head covered and wires attached to his hands. That prisoner was told that if he fell off the box, he would be electrocuted. In another photograph, prisoners' bodies were stacked in a pyramid - one body had a slur written in English on his skin.
Despite the charges against American soldiers, Kimmitt says Americans shouldn't lose faith in the military – since the investigation is focused on a small number of soldiers, and doesn't reflect the conduct of the vast majority of U.S. forces.
"Frankly, I think all of us are disappointed by the actions of the few," says Kimmitt. "Every day we love our soldiers but frankly, somedays we're not always proud of our soldiers...It's a small, small minority of people we're talking about here, less than a dozen out of the 150,000 who are serving honorably and proudly over here....The Army is a values-based organization. We live by our values. Some of our soldiers every day die by our values and these acts that you see in these pictures may reflect the actions of individuals but by God it doesn't reflect my army."
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/04/27/60II/main614063.shtml
Message 21/147 30-Apr-04 @ 02:32 PM - RE:
....his day-job in the states is prison-guard.
he said they had no training and had no idea what the rules were.
i'm guessing he'll get to come back home and keep an eye on our own again.
that's sweet.
Message 22/147 30-Apr-04 @ 03:20 PM - RE:
makes me laugh tho that a guy being stood on a box for psycholoical interrogation is deemed more worthy of an outcry that the blowing to smithereens of thousands of children and other civilians.
The Brit's were doing that shit in Ireland for years (and worse) and so does everyone else, but many of these banana places carry it thru for real.... no fake psychological stuff, but REAL aweful torture
The fake stuff is like, y'know - fake stuff playing on the mind, like you dissorientate the prisoner for an hour or so, have him bent over a desk with his hands tied behind leaning on his head, while being verbaly hammered for an hour or so... Then have him then held upright so he cant move by a few guys while an aggressive 'player' brandishes a knife in his face & threatens him...
The 'knife player' then walks behind the prisoner all the while shoting and threatening with the knife, and then when he's behind the prisoner and can't be seen he draws long 'cuts' down the prisoners back with a shard of broken ice - the prisoner feels the 'hot' cut of the shard of ice being dragged down his back, feels the water dribbling down from it and assumes he's being cut...
stuff like that. - that's pretty much what 'the man on the box' is about - the fear of the unknown what is supposed to happen in his mind.
I mean they COULD have electrocuted him for real or any other number of aweful things.
I think killing civilians is worse myself. after all, they aint shooting at you.
___________________________________
I had an idea for a script once. It's basically Jaws except when the guys in the boat are going after Jaws, they look around and there's an even bigger Jaws. The guys have to team up with Jaws to get Bigger Jaws.... I call it... Big Jaws!!!
Message 23/147 30-Apr-04 @ 03:52 PM - RE:
not being able to see and trying to work out whether its an interrigation or food and water time and then WACK! A hammer comes down on your foot and the beatings start.....
truly horrible psycholgical torture.....
greg
oh the most impressive psyc torture i read about (in fiction of course) was a russian idea to completely starve the victims of sensorary stimulation....sending them crazy after a while....
Message 24/147 30-Apr-04 @ 05:08 PM - RE:
you say that like there's really a good reason??
oh wait - maybe you meant a good reason as in why someone joins the armed forces? to defend u.s. hamlets from the marauding iraqi hordes?
and what's this thing with iraqis anyway? is that anyone who isn't an american who is there? what if they're more a lollipop maker and not an iraqi?
Message 25/147 30-Apr-04 @ 07:21 PM - RE:
ok, I see, cheds... you just save it all up for one big incredibly poignant moment of clarity once every... 6 months? ;) Nice one...
Message 26/147 30-Apr-04 @ 07:57 PM - RE:
our bombs dropped from overhead mutilate.
rocket mortars mutilate and incinerate.
blowing heads off and burning flesh just like everything else.
what mutilation occurred to those contractors is really no different than what we've done to fallujah....only we've outdone them easily a hundred times and we do it from a safer distance to minimize our own losses.
the prison-photos show only what goes on when we're having a little fun.
Message 27/147 30-Apr-04 @ 08:49 PM - RE:
contractors? lets use terminology that's a bit more accurate shall we? Mercenaries!
they worked for Blackwater.... they train killers.
Message 28/147 30-Apr-04 @ 10:37 PM - RE:
anyway...cheddar...clap clap
andrew...wow, man. your faith in the "system," based on your relationships with one, two, five people...?
soldiers, to me = JOCKS. nothing more, nothing less. More often than not. Sure there are thinkers amongst them, but...
HOO RAH! KILL THEM SAND NIGGERS!
you tell me that isnt the common fcking attitude?
as for torture...well...I'll tell you what:
theyre gonna prosecute that handful of folks as a way of saying "see? we're in control, and we're doing what's "right" over there!"
meanwhile thousands of innocents die in haphazard, whimsical shootouts
many of those innocents are US soldiers, doing what theyre told.
grrrrr
Message 29/147 01-May-04 @ 08:05 AM Edit: 01-May-04 | 08:06 AM - RE:
Zazza
Posts: 1502
Link?: No link
File?: [image]
[image file]
The coalition brings democracy and freedom to the Iraqis...
Message 30/147 01-May-04 @ 08:07 AM Edit: 01-May-04 | 08:08 AM - RE:
Zazza
Posts: 1502
Link?: No link
File?: [image]
[image file]
They look like good people to me...
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