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Forums - The lounge
Subject: "I didn't know you couldn't......"
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 ... 15
Original Message Date: 28-Apr-04 @ 09:41 PM Edit: 28-Apr-04 | 09:42 PM - "I didn't know you couldn't.......
...punch POWs in the face!?!"
this is absurd! what kind of fucking dolts do we have in the military anyhow?
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/04/27/60II/main614063.shtml
this is absurd! what kind of fucking dolts do we have in the military anyhow?
quote
Abuse Of Iraqi Prisoners Probed
April 28, 2004
Brig. Gen. Mark Kimmitt tells Dan Rather he is "appalled" by what happened in a Baghdad prison.
"If we can't hold ourselves up as an example of how to treat people with dignity and respect, we can't ask that other nations do that to our soldiers."
Brig. Gen. Mark Kimmitt
Army Reserve Staff Sgt. Chip Frederick, one of the soldiers now facing court martial, described to Rather what he saw in the Iraqi prison. (Photo: Staff Sgt. Chip Frederick )
(CBS) A few weeks ago, the U.S. Army announced that 17 soldiers in Iraq had been removed from duty, and six of them were facing court martial for mistreating Iraqi prisoners at Abu Ghraib, the infamous prison where Saddam Hussein and his henchmen tortured and executed Iraqis for decades.
60 Minutes II has obtained photographs of what was happening in Abu Ghraib. The photos show American soldiers mistreating Iraqi prisoners.
In his Wednesday morning briefing, Brig. Gen. Mark Kimmitt said the photographs may be shown in Dan Rather's report on 60 Minutes II, Wednesday at 8 p.m. ET/PT.
The discovery of the photographs by the Army led to an investigation which concluded that there were problems at the prison from the general in charge of the prison, to the military police guarding the prisoners. An investigation into abuse claims started in January, after a U.S. soldier came forward with allegations and evidence of abuse.
Kimmitt, in an interview conducted by satellite from Baghdad, told Correspondent Dan Rather: "We're appalled...these are our fellow soldiers, these are the people we work with every day, they represent us, they wear the same uniform as us, and they let their fellow soldiers down....We expect our soldiers to be treated well by the adversary, by the enemy...and if we can't hold ourselves up as an example of how to treat people with dignity and respect, we can't ask that other nations do that to our soldiers."
Kimmitt says even though charges have been filed against the six soldiers, a more general investigation continues into how prisoners are interrogated at the prison. One of the soldiers who is now facing court martial, Army Reserve Staff Sgt. Chip Frederick, described to Rather what he saw in the Iraqi prison.
"We had no support, no training whatsoever, and I kept asking my chain of command for certain things, rules and regulations, and it just wasn't happening," he said.
Frederick is charged with maltreatment, assault and indecent acts for posing for a photograph while sitting on top of a detainee, striking detainees and ordering detainees to strike each other, among other things.
Frederick wrote home to his family about the treatment of prisoners. He said in an e-mail: "We helped getting them to talk with the way we handle them. We've had a very high rate with our styles of getting them to break; they usually end up breaking within hours."
The pictures 60 Minutes II obtained show an Iraqi prisoner who, according to the U.S. Army, was told to stand on a box with his head covered and wires attached to his hands. That prisoner was told that if he fell off the box, he would be electrocuted. In another photograph, prisoners' bodies were stacked in a pyramid - one body had a slur written in English on his skin.
Despite the charges against American soldiers, Kimmitt says Americans shouldn't lose faith in the military – since the investigation is focused on a small number of soldiers, and doesn't reflect the conduct of the vast majority of U.S. forces.
"Frankly, I think all of us are disappointed by the actions of the few," says Kimmitt. "Every day we love our soldiers but frankly, somedays we're not always proud of our soldiers...It's a small, small minority of people we're talking about here, less than a dozen out of the 150,000 who are serving honorably and proudly over here....The Army is a values-based organization. We live by our values. Some of our soldiers every day die by our values and these acts that you see in these pictures may reflect the actions of individuals but by God it doesn't reflect my army."
Abuse Of Iraqi Prisoners Probed
April 28, 2004
Brig. Gen. Mark Kimmitt tells Dan Rather he is "appalled" by what happened in a Baghdad prison.
"If we can't hold ourselves up as an example of how to treat people with dignity and respect, we can't ask that other nations do that to our soldiers."
Brig. Gen. Mark Kimmitt
Army Reserve Staff Sgt. Chip Frederick, one of the soldiers now facing court martial, described to Rather what he saw in the Iraqi prison. (Photo: Staff Sgt. Chip Frederick )
(CBS) A few weeks ago, the U.S. Army announced that 17 soldiers in Iraq had been removed from duty, and six of them were facing court martial for mistreating Iraqi prisoners at Abu Ghraib, the infamous prison where Saddam Hussein and his henchmen tortured and executed Iraqis for decades.
60 Minutes II has obtained photographs of what was happening in Abu Ghraib. The photos show American soldiers mistreating Iraqi prisoners.
In his Wednesday morning briefing, Brig. Gen. Mark Kimmitt said the photographs may be shown in Dan Rather's report on 60 Minutes II, Wednesday at 8 p.m. ET/PT.
The discovery of the photographs by the Army led to an investigation which concluded that there were problems at the prison from the general in charge of the prison, to the military police guarding the prisoners. An investigation into abuse claims started in January, after a U.S. soldier came forward with allegations and evidence of abuse.
Kimmitt, in an interview conducted by satellite from Baghdad, told Correspondent Dan Rather: "We're appalled...these are our fellow soldiers, these are the people we work with every day, they represent us, they wear the same uniform as us, and they let their fellow soldiers down....We expect our soldiers to be treated well by the adversary, by the enemy...and if we can't hold ourselves up as an example of how to treat people with dignity and respect, we can't ask that other nations do that to our soldiers."
Kimmitt says even though charges have been filed against the six soldiers, a more general investigation continues into how prisoners are interrogated at the prison. One of the soldiers who is now facing court martial, Army Reserve Staff Sgt. Chip Frederick, described to Rather what he saw in the Iraqi prison.
"We had no support, no training whatsoever, and I kept asking my chain of command for certain things, rules and regulations, and it just wasn't happening," he said.
Frederick is charged with maltreatment, assault and indecent acts for posing for a photograph while sitting on top of a detainee, striking detainees and ordering detainees to strike each other, among other things.
Frederick wrote home to his family about the treatment of prisoners. He said in an e-mail: "We helped getting them to talk with the way we handle them. We've had a very high rate with our styles of getting them to break; they usually end up breaking within hours."
The pictures 60 Minutes II obtained show an Iraqi prisoner who, according to the U.S. Army, was told to stand on a box with his head covered and wires attached to his hands. That prisoner was told that if he fell off the box, he would be electrocuted. In another photograph, prisoners' bodies were stacked in a pyramid - one body had a slur written in English on his skin.
Despite the charges against American soldiers, Kimmitt says Americans shouldn't lose faith in the military – since the investigation is focused on a small number of soldiers, and doesn't reflect the conduct of the vast majority of U.S. forces.
"Frankly, I think all of us are disappointed by the actions of the few," says Kimmitt. "Every day we love our soldiers but frankly, somedays we're not always proud of our soldiers...It's a small, small minority of people we're talking about here, less than a dozen out of the 150,000 who are serving honorably and proudly over here....The Army is a values-based organization. We live by our values. Some of our soldiers every day die by our values and these acts that you see in these pictures may reflect the actions of individuals but by God it doesn't reflect my army."
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/04/27/60II/main614063.shtml
Message 31/147 01-May-04 @ 10:04 AM - RE:
oh.... you brits should be the ones to "take the piss"
"A British soldier urinates on an Iraqi prisoner in a vile display of abuse. The captive was beaten and hurled from a moving truck. Army chiefs are investigating."
"A British soldier urinates on an Iraqi prisoner in a vile display of abuse. The captive was beaten and hurled from a moving truck. Army chiefs are investigating."
Message 32/147 01-May-04 @ 10:05 AM - RE:
Message 33/147 01-May-04 @ 11:20 AM Edit: 01-May-04 | 12:37 PM - RE:
Zazza
Posts: 1502
Link?: No link
File?: No file
yeah I couldn't find the piccy...
Makes you proud to be a member of a free, just, democratic society engaged in 'liberating' those poor people from an unjust and brutal regime doesn't it...
Still, at least the Haliburton shareholders will get a good return...
Makes you proud to be a member of a free, just, democratic society engaged in 'liberating' those poor people from an unjust and brutal regime doesn't it...
Still, at least the Haliburton shareholders will get a good return...
Message 34/147 01-May-04 @ 12:38 PM - RE:
ah well... it's wierd how the public is ok with stuff as long as they dont see it - why dont they show some people blasted by bombings into shreds - it's odd how this distinction is made between ripping people to shreds for 'war' and doing such and such when not 'in combat' as being 'ok with the rules'
that guy on the box looks like he's auditioning for a local KKK production of 'The Temptation of Christ'
that guy on the box looks like he's auditioning for a local KKK production of 'The Temptation of Christ'
___________________________________
I had an idea for a script once. It's basically Jaws except when the guys in the boat are going after Jaws, they look around and there's an even bigger Jaws. The guys have to team up with Jaws to get Bigger Jaws.... I call it... Big Jaws!!!
Message 35/147 01-May-04 @ 06:17 PM - RE:
..and after yet another thread like this, people are sitll gonig to be telling me to 'settle down, you're too paranoid, just relax and laugh at life..'
and then they get all uppity when i call them moron nazi robots from the hell that is civilisation.
i fucking could fucking slap fucking those fucking bastards fucking silly fucking when fucking they fucking say fucking that.
could someone write a plug-in what automatically inserts declarations of indignance for me?
ho ho fucking ho i'll show a motherfucker
and then they get all uppity when i call them moron nazi robots from the hell that is civilisation.
i fucking could fucking slap fucking those fucking bastards fucking silly fucking when fucking they fucking say fucking that.
could someone write a plug-in what automatically inserts declarations of indignance for me?
ho ho fucking ho i'll show a motherfucker
Message 36/147 01-May-04 @ 07:38 PM - RE:
It's cute how the proof is displayed and BS can't come back to see it... the world's a fuggin' ugly place, kid. Even good people act horribly in horrible circumstances...
and
ABUSE OF POWER COMES AS NO SURPRISE
Last night I watched FOX news (I never do that!!) and was horrified at the bent of the reporting (another thread)... but I heard a quote that Bush made the other day defending the "Mission Accomplished" speech on that aircrafted carrier last year when he declared the war over in Iraq...
just the other day he said, "The Mission HAS BEEN accomplished. Saddam is out of power. There are no torture chambers, mass graves or death squads in Iraq!" And I thought, the guy in the hood on a box looked like he was in a torture chamber to me.
Same sh+t different assholes? Sure,
And, yes... what we have in the US is on the backs of others the world over! We do indeed manipulate weaker peoples to defend our freedom to acquire luxuries. And we do invade other countries to secure our own power and decadence. If you don't see that you don't look beyond the scope of your own suburban neighborhood!
Slavery is alive and well... and we Americans live fat on the produce of it's suffering.
e
and
ABUSE OF POWER COMES AS NO SURPRISE
Last night I watched FOX news (I never do that!!) and was horrified at the bent of the reporting (another thread)... but I heard a quote that Bush made the other day defending the "Mission Accomplished" speech on that aircrafted carrier last year when he declared the war over in Iraq...
just the other day he said, "The Mission HAS BEEN accomplished. Saddam is out of power. There are no torture chambers, mass graves or death squads in Iraq!" And I thought, the guy in the hood on a box looked like he was in a torture chamber to me.
Same sh+t different assholes? Sure,
And, yes... what we have in the US is on the backs of others the world over! We do indeed manipulate weaker peoples to defend our freedom to acquire luxuries. And we do invade other countries to secure our own power and decadence. If you don't see that you don't look beyond the scope of your own suburban neighborhood!
Slavery is alive and well... and we Americans live fat on the produce of it's suffering.
e
Message 37/147 01-May-04 @ 08:08 PM - RE:
Zazza
Posts: 1502
Link?: No link
File?: No file
The only thing that is ever going to change this is the lifting of ignorance...
otherwise we have a planetful of people who believe some crap in the bible or the koran or the talmud and think that 'right' is on their side..
We need to educate people to a point where they have a clue... intellectually and spiritually.. and that ain't gonna happen overnight is it..
It's not the fault of the US or the UK or France or Saddam, I guess we have this 'them and us' thing built into our genes... Us good, Them bad..., Territoriality, Aggression.. no doubt it makes evolutionary sense up to a point.. sad but true I think..
Is there hope?
Probably not in my lifetime or my children's lifetime... we are just built that way... built to accept the crap that is fed to us by ignorant fools like bush and blair... full of ego shit... lust for power, fear of death...
and the world weeps... and the mother's weep and anyhone with a sense of the value of human life weeps... and saddam and bush et al play out their pathetic little dramas on the world stage...
otherwise we have a planetful of people who believe some crap in the bible or the koran or the talmud and think that 'right' is on their side..
We need to educate people to a point where they have a clue... intellectually and spiritually.. and that ain't gonna happen overnight is it..
It's not the fault of the US or the UK or France or Saddam, I guess we have this 'them and us' thing built into our genes... Us good, Them bad..., Territoriality, Aggression.. no doubt it makes evolutionary sense up to a point.. sad but true I think..
Is there hope?
Probably not in my lifetime or my children's lifetime... we are just built that way... built to accept the crap that is fed to us by ignorant fools like bush and blair... full of ego shit... lust for power, fear of death...
and the world weeps... and the mother's weep and anyhone with a sense of the value of human life weeps... and saddam and bush et al play out their pathetic little dramas on the world stage...
Message 38/147 01-May-04 @ 10:27 PM - RE:
No I am back to see it. To be honest with you I do learn alot through dancetech, in my young age. But there are a few things that have pissed me off in this thread.
xoxos- that was sarcasm.
As for the torture pics, surely just like the 5 people I know who could be good people, those 5 in the pictures can't be few out of the crew in your way innit?
I was talking to my father today about this..I'm regurgitating to you what he said (well what I remember of it, as we were on our way to dropping me off for the SATs today), and I think its absolutley correct. (Note he's a retardedly right wing conservative)
We were in the car, driving down to the $20,000-a-year school that chelsea (the white house dog) clinton went to. Funny isnt it- I thought clinton was so for sending kids to public schools? Why wouldn't he send his own daughter to one? Hmmm. Also, John Kerry lives less than a block away from my house. His cars appropriately are 2 denalis (which get GREAT gas mileage I bet)
(sorry I felt like giving a bit of the conservative jokes/democrat ironies that my father feels its his duty to regurgitate every time we hop into a car together)
ANYHOW, we were driving and that stuff..and I popped him the question- "What is going on with the Iraqi torturing stuff?" As simple as I could be.
He went on for 15 minutes. Listing names apon names of people he'd remove from position, throw in jail, and court marshal for doing all that shit. He'd basically remove everyone from ground up, because this is the kind of shit that happens when you leave a bunch of "ya-hoo-kids" in the middle of no where without proper supervision.
Then I quote his exact words: "The situation could not get worse. Something has to be done, immediately"
And this is coming from an ultra conservative pentagon freak.
So...basically point of my post was just to let you folks know that shit is going to be done, severe shit..even the most conservative of people think that it was just out of line.
xoxos- that was sarcasm.
As for the torture pics, surely just like the 5 people I know who could be good people, those 5 in the pictures can't be few out of the crew in your way innit?
I was talking to my father today about this..I'm regurgitating to you what he said (well what I remember of it, as we were on our way to dropping me off for the SATs today), and I think its absolutley correct. (Note he's a retardedly right wing conservative)
We were in the car, driving down to the $20,000-a-year school that chelsea (the white house dog) clinton went to. Funny isnt it- I thought clinton was so for sending kids to public schools? Why wouldn't he send his own daughter to one? Hmmm. Also, John Kerry lives less than a block away from my house. His cars appropriately are 2 denalis (which get GREAT gas mileage I bet)
(sorry I felt like giving a bit of the conservative jokes/democrat ironies that my father feels its his duty to regurgitate every time we hop into a car together)
ANYHOW, we were driving and that stuff..and I popped him the question- "What is going on with the Iraqi torturing stuff?" As simple as I could be.
He went on for 15 minutes. Listing names apon names of people he'd remove from position, throw in jail, and court marshal for doing all that shit. He'd basically remove everyone from ground up, because this is the kind of shit that happens when you leave a bunch of "ya-hoo-kids" in the middle of no where without proper supervision.
Then I quote his exact words: "The situation could not get worse. Something has to be done, immediately"
And this is coming from an ultra conservative pentagon freak.
So...basically point of my post was just to let you folks know that shit is going to be done, severe shit..even the most conservative of people think that it was just out of line.
Message 40/147 01-May-04 @ 11:03 PM - RE:
he was the chairman of the army science board for 4 years. now he's on both defence science boards and army science boards. ... hmmm
he's a consultant for a bunch of big companies like martin marietta (sp lol) and CACI...kinda like a F-22 salesman :P
he does a bunch more shit, some classified etc. They want him to be secretary of the army or take over the iraqi security situation but he doesnt want to- he doesnt feel like its the job for him.
he's a consultant for a bunch of big companies like martin marietta (sp lol) and CACI...kinda like a F-22 salesman :P
he does a bunch more shit, some classified etc. They want him to be secretary of the army or take over the iraqi security situation but he doesnt want to- he doesnt feel like its the job for him.
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