The Arrogance of Originality???

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Subject: The Arrogance of Originality???

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Original Message Date: 30-Sep-04 @ 11:02 PM - The Arrogance of Originality???

CydoniaCell

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"I think that this is an unavoidable situation given the reliance on digital audio tools for creating electronic music but it is no different than musicians being able to hear a Yamaha DX-7, Korg M-1 or an Arp 2600 on a recording except now they can hear plug-ins. Being aware of the tools used in a work of art is nothing new. I used to hang out with fine arts and film students who could trainspot a particular type of brush, medium or camera lens used in a work. The pressure to create sounds that have never been heard before and/or whose origins are undetectable reeks of a modernist notion of "originality". Originality is no longer a relevant aesthetic problem...we abandoned that idea a long time ago. I like the fact that tools have become part of the message...it can create very complex surfaces upon which to work."

Kim Cascone
-- founder of Silent Records and all around brilliant electronic music dude.

Whadya think?

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Message 41/71 21-Oct-04 @ 04:39 PM - RE: The Arrogance of Originality???

Togo Peffin

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All I was saying was that playing instruments is more expressive and artistic; strumming and plucking are 'hands-on'. Draw an interesting picture and then try to replicate it on that computer program 'Paint'. It's the same difference. Otherwise just compare names: those who write/wrote music for and play/played actual musical instruments versus those who program it all. And yes, it is a generalisation, a 'blanket statement', but it rings true in my opinion. Remember, it's only an opinion.
Togo

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Message 42/71 21-Oct-04 @ 04:41 PM - RE: The Arrogance of Originality???

mcc>

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i might add that i can think of hundreds of instances where there should LESS od the "you" or "ME" in the music and more of what i refer to (for lack of a better word) as god....
or the cosmos.
>the universe.
this is something i think electronic music has really opened up for us in a way that
somehow john cougar, axel rose...or lenny kravitz couldn't.
to say ALL music manually-manipulated is always superior is simply a tad extreme.
oh yeah...i forgot bon jovi.

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Message 43/71 21-Oct-04 @ 04:46 PM - RE: The Arrogance of Originality???

mcc>

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ya beat me togo.....
my post was intended to follow ape's.
but of course, you know a statement like yours required a little qualifying.

but i'm in agreement that the cycle of pure deconstruction of music into beats and whirs and buzzes is long behind us.
kinda like john cage playing a bicycle....very very VERY cool...but next...
a little music.

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Message 44/71 21-Oct-04 @ 04:58 PM - RE: The Arrogance of Originality???

Togo Peffin

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Fair enough, not ALL. Phil Collins is a good example of hideous played music from someone who actually has musical talent. His music is fucking dire. And I don't like Guns 'n' Roses. When I said 'compare names' I was thinking of the people who REALLY stand out in musical history - Doors, Beatles, Zappa, Bob Marley, Bob Dylan, the list goes on endlessly. Surely you're not going to tell me that Orbital are better than, or close to, these guys, are you?
And Clay, I was enjoying life until you reminded me of the existence of Bon Jovi. Now I'll hide in a cupboard till I can forget them again. Back soon.
Togo

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Message 45/71 21-Oct-04 @ 05:10 PM - RE: The Arrogance of Originality???

mcc>

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well...you probably deserved that one.
it hurt me just to say it.

heh heh>

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Message 46/71 21-Oct-04 @ 05:45 PM - RE: The Arrogance of Originality???

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yeah - agreed about Bon Jovi - except with the caveat that the production on their album was pretty damned 'monster' at the time of release and was quite a milestone for cheezy song-based AOR rock.

GnR are ok tho - they rock!... or used to anyways before Axel lost it on coke.

___________________________________

I had an idea for a script once. It's basically Jaws except when the guys in the boat are going after Jaws, they look around and there's an even bigger Jaws. The guys have to team up with Jaws to get Bigger Jaws.... I call it... Big Jaws!!!

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Message 47/71 21-Oct-04 @ 06:12 PM - RE: The Arrogance of Originality???

mcc>

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toto's telling me to close my eyes and click these damned heels....

ie make like bowie running out the concert from one outta-control singer boltin off the stage in a RAGE just cause you're chattin his girl while he's howling and whoooing and strutting his silly shit up there.
axel lost it on coke because he was lost to begin with.

you're winning my arguments for me man.
this is exactly what i was talking about.

less HIM. less COKE. less sLASH. leSS keith richards imitations.
less LOST rock-star beating up his fans buLLSHIT>
less michael jackson. just LESS>

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Message 48/71 21-Oct-04 @ 06:26 PM - RE: The Arrogance of Originality???

Pongoid

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Listen to Francesco Zappa. The entire album is done on a Synclavier. Kow why? Because he couldn't get the musicians to do it right. Now I totally agree with the need for better interfaces that capture more of the nuance of playing more "traditional" style instruments. I'm a bassist, myself. You think I'm having an easy time with this? Try to find a synth that accurately tracks a low B. Still, there are plenty of valid and sublime pieces made on all kinds of tools.

Now, in regard to the Arrogance of "Originality"...assume somebody else has already done it, and get the fuck on with doing what you do. I TRY to make original sounds, and put them together in ways that are the way I hear them. I'm probably not going to hear them the exact same way anyone else does.

*shrugs

Sounds original to me...fuck it. Good enough. Now, what's this next piece going to sound li.....

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Message 49/71 21-Oct-04 @ 06:50 PM - RE: The Arrogance of Originality???

Togo Peffin

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I thought someone might mention the Synclavier if I named Mr. Zappa. Still, most of his stuff, and almost all his best stuff, was done with the help of kick-arse musicians like George Duke, Jean-Luc Ponty, etc. It's just that Zappa was so damn ambitious that even his virtuoso bands couldn't realise all his ideas.
And I'm with you here: it is possible to sound different from other people. If it wasn't, there wouldn't be such stand-out artists as the ones I mentioned earlier. The problem is that originality is not conducive to success. Blame the record companies.
Togo

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Message 50/71 21-Oct-04 @ 07:04 PM - RE: The Arrogance of Originality???

CydoniaCell

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well, to that end... Originality is not always synonymous with "good"

e

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