The Arrogance of Originality???

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Subject: The Arrogance of Originality???

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Original Message Date: 30-Sep-04 @ 11:02 PM - The Arrogance of Originality???

CydoniaCell

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"I think that this is an unavoidable situation given the reliance on digital audio tools for creating electronic music but it is no different than musicians being able to hear a Yamaha DX-7, Korg M-1 or an Arp 2600 on a recording except now they can hear plug-ins. Being aware of the tools used in a work of art is nothing new. I used to hang out with fine arts and film students who could trainspot a particular type of brush, medium or camera lens used in a work. The pressure to create sounds that have never been heard before and/or whose origins are undetectable reeks of a modernist notion of "originality". Originality is no longer a relevant aesthetic problem...we abandoned that idea a long time ago. I like the fact that tools have become part of the message...it can create very complex surfaces upon which to work."

Kim Cascone
-- founder of Silent Records and all around brilliant electronic music dude.

Whadya think?

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Message 51/71 21-Oct-04 @ 07:42 PM - RE: The Arrogance of Originality???

nutoniom

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the oragenitality of arrogance is not to be questionned.

tony and george come to mind

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Message 52/71 21-Oct-04 @ 08:14 PM - RE: The Arrogance of Originality???

Pongoid

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To be sure, original and good are not necessarily found hand in hand. Just because one is hte first at something, it doesn't mean they are good at it. It simply means that they set the first standard, which will probably be surpassed quickly, if anyone else has any idea of what they did or how they did it. The first of anything is not something can be judged. It IS the pointof reference. After thatone, THEN the judgements come, and comparisions can be made, should some feel the need to do so.

"You are what you is,

and that's all it is."

So speaketh the Master.

Ape

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Message 53/71 21-Oct-04 @ 09:51 PM - RE: The Arrogance of Originality???

cheddar

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and i read an sf story before about how intelligence isn't a survival trait

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Message 54/71 21-Oct-04 @ 10:19 PM - RE: The Arrogance of Originality???

Togo Peffin

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Well put Pongoid. But in music you can normally tell if you like it or not (unless it's Brian Eno). So if it's something you've heard examples of a million times before, you probably won't like it however well it's executed. Or it could just be a terrible cover version of something good, like when evil hell devil Will Young uglified the classic 'Light my Fire' by The Doors.
Togo

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Message 55/71 22-Oct-04 @ 07:51 PM - RE: The Arrogance of Originality???

xoxos

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you're all head cases. originality has nothing to do with uniqueness, and it is always "good." try thinking more "honesty" if the concept of origin gives you your troubles.

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Message 56/71 22-Oct-04 @ 10:11 PM - RE: The Arrogance of Originality???

Mindspawn

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There is no good, no evil, nor lack of either... Nothing is profane, all is and is not opinion, and even a preset is "original" by definition within a time space. Does time exist save in agreed mental fornication...? A-Greed Men_tal fornicate-shun......????

I for one welcome our new insect overlords......

Seriously, what fugging rubbish. Who gives a fuck if originality does or doesn't exist? Why does it have any relevance save for those few fragile egos that need something with which to prove their value in a cosmos that "seemingly" doesn't give a shit...... eventually "all" will be consumed or isolated, so does that make the consumer and the hermit the highest form of "godlike" existence?

"...and on the seven millionth day man created god and said that it was good....."

Nice to see that this place still bubbles with philosphical banter.... ahhh the eternal helix of dance music and philosphy....

Pax.... or not... suit thineself.

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Message 57/71 22-Oct-04 @ 11:20 PM - RE: The Arrogance of Originality???

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i'd just like to say (again no doubt) that music perhaps get people into a very 'conceptual & cerebral' tip, but i think perhaps one should always remember that music was and still in some cases IS a very functional thing - so fuck theories, each to his own, but like amny forms of art, it ONCE was functional - it provided necessary functions within a society from remembering past facts to carry forward in the form of songs cos songs are easyest to remember that just facts as we know from learning our times-tables at school which we would give a rhythm so as to turn it into a song with verses one could sing in ones head to arrive at a multiplication - etc etc

and to celebrate, for festivals, for celebrations and just to cut loose and let off some steam... all perfectly normal and certainly DEEPLY required fucntions of a stable rational society of people

so,,,, imo if someone slags of 'dance' music... well.. fine, but epople want to go out and dance, let of some steam, have fun... is originality such a hugely imprtant thing even IF it does exist within that remit as when one says "THAT tune with THAT riff is great....." and it gets people up - but primarily it is for people to DANCE to and the rhythm is king in the genre above all followed by the guiding story of the musical overlay.

so y'know.... originality... it doesnt have to mean anything but, something original CAN enhance of course the functionality... and that doesnt in any way mean the 'definition' of the word 'originality' has to be dragged round the block

___________________________________

I had an idea for a script once. It's basically Jaws except when the guys in the boat are going after Jaws, they look around and there's an even bigger Jaws. The guys have to team up with Jaws to get Bigger Jaws.... I call it... Big Jaws!!!

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Message 58/71 22-Oct-04 @ 11:39 PM - RE: The Arrogance of Originality???

Mindspawn

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well said g'sir...=)

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Message 59/71 23-Oct-04 @ 12:12 AM - RE: The Arrogance of Originality???

CydoniaCell

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MS... your comments are right on with my original take. This need to be unique and original (I think) is founded on some self serving principal that makes me feel like I must be special and different and somehow better.

Frankly, it's just exactly why I was attracted to da tekno in the first place. Aside from projection (which is everything anyway) it's not about the performer/artist/etc... it's about everyone coming together, vibing together on something, and doing their thing. Period.

I'm not prepared to go around feeling special about that. Even if someone else thinks that the noizes that come from my PA are interesting!

thanks

and XOXOs... brilliant as usual! Original and unique are both a bit of posturing... but honesty... there's something I can sink my teeth into...

e

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Message 60/71 23-Oct-04 @ 07:29 AM - RE: The Arrogance of Originality???

mcc>

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one thing i never do when i sit down and start a song is to say>
....yeah...i wanna do a song like that guy.

another thing i never do once a song starts to progress is to say>
i can't do this because it's starting to sound like this other guy.

worrying how original one is like worrying if you're gonna die or not.

you are going to die at some point and you're not original enough to be the exception.
make music and have fun while you're at it and if you happen to do it enough to run into occasional ideas which feel unique in their degree of inspiration meaning or
their influence upon the environment...then consider yourself as having done some good within your life of music-making.
you can lay in your grave with a smile.
ah...fuck it...who's gonna stop ya?

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