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Forums - The lounge
Subject: "I didn't know you couldn't......"
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Original Message Date: 28-Apr-04 @ 09:41 PM Edit: 28-Apr-04 | 09:42 PM - "I didn't know you couldn't.......
...punch POWs in the face!?!"
this is absurd! what kind of fucking dolts do we have in the military anyhow?
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/04/27/60II/main614063.shtml
this is absurd! what kind of fucking dolts do we have in the military anyhow?
quote
Abuse Of Iraqi Prisoners Probed
April 28, 2004
Brig. Gen. Mark Kimmitt tells Dan Rather he is "appalled" by what happened in a Baghdad prison.
"If we can't hold ourselves up as an example of how to treat people with dignity and respect, we can't ask that other nations do that to our soldiers."
Brig. Gen. Mark Kimmitt
Army Reserve Staff Sgt. Chip Frederick, one of the soldiers now facing court martial, described to Rather what he saw in the Iraqi prison. (Photo: Staff Sgt. Chip Frederick )
(CBS) A few weeks ago, the U.S. Army announced that 17 soldiers in Iraq had been removed from duty, and six of them were facing court martial for mistreating Iraqi prisoners at Abu Ghraib, the infamous prison where Saddam Hussein and his henchmen tortured and executed Iraqis for decades.
60 Minutes II has obtained photographs of what was happening in Abu Ghraib. The photos show American soldiers mistreating Iraqi prisoners.
In his Wednesday morning briefing, Brig. Gen. Mark Kimmitt said the photographs may be shown in Dan Rather's report on 60 Minutes II, Wednesday at 8 p.m. ET/PT.
The discovery of the photographs by the Army led to an investigation which concluded that there were problems at the prison from the general in charge of the prison, to the military police guarding the prisoners. An investigation into abuse claims started in January, after a U.S. soldier came forward with allegations and evidence of abuse.
Kimmitt, in an interview conducted by satellite from Baghdad, told Correspondent Dan Rather: "We're appalled...these are our fellow soldiers, these are the people we work with every day, they represent us, they wear the same uniform as us, and they let their fellow soldiers down....We expect our soldiers to be treated well by the adversary, by the enemy...and if we can't hold ourselves up as an example of how to treat people with dignity and respect, we can't ask that other nations do that to our soldiers."
Kimmitt says even though charges have been filed against the six soldiers, a more general investigation continues into how prisoners are interrogated at the prison. One of the soldiers who is now facing court martial, Army Reserve Staff Sgt. Chip Frederick, described to Rather what he saw in the Iraqi prison.
"We had no support, no training whatsoever, and I kept asking my chain of command for certain things, rules and regulations, and it just wasn't happening," he said.
Frederick is charged with maltreatment, assault and indecent acts for posing for a photograph while sitting on top of a detainee, striking detainees and ordering detainees to strike each other, among other things.
Frederick wrote home to his family about the treatment of prisoners. He said in an e-mail: "We helped getting them to talk with the way we handle them. We've had a very high rate with our styles of getting them to break; they usually end up breaking within hours."
The pictures 60 Minutes II obtained show an Iraqi prisoner who, according to the U.S. Army, was told to stand on a box with his head covered and wires attached to his hands. That prisoner was told that if he fell off the box, he would be electrocuted. In another photograph, prisoners' bodies were stacked in a pyramid - one body had a slur written in English on his skin.
Despite the charges against American soldiers, Kimmitt says Americans shouldn't lose faith in the military – since the investigation is focused on a small number of soldiers, and doesn't reflect the conduct of the vast majority of U.S. forces.
"Frankly, I think all of us are disappointed by the actions of the few," says Kimmitt. "Every day we love our soldiers but frankly, somedays we're not always proud of our soldiers...It's a small, small minority of people we're talking about here, less than a dozen out of the 150,000 who are serving honorably and proudly over here....The Army is a values-based organization. We live by our values. Some of our soldiers every day die by our values and these acts that you see in these pictures may reflect the actions of individuals but by God it doesn't reflect my army."
Abuse Of Iraqi Prisoners Probed
April 28, 2004
Brig. Gen. Mark Kimmitt tells Dan Rather he is "appalled" by what happened in a Baghdad prison.
"If we can't hold ourselves up as an example of how to treat people with dignity and respect, we can't ask that other nations do that to our soldiers."
Brig. Gen. Mark Kimmitt
Army Reserve Staff Sgt. Chip Frederick, one of the soldiers now facing court martial, described to Rather what he saw in the Iraqi prison. (Photo: Staff Sgt. Chip Frederick )
(CBS) A few weeks ago, the U.S. Army announced that 17 soldiers in Iraq had been removed from duty, and six of them were facing court martial for mistreating Iraqi prisoners at Abu Ghraib, the infamous prison where Saddam Hussein and his henchmen tortured and executed Iraqis for decades.
60 Minutes II has obtained photographs of what was happening in Abu Ghraib. The photos show American soldiers mistreating Iraqi prisoners.
In his Wednesday morning briefing, Brig. Gen. Mark Kimmitt said the photographs may be shown in Dan Rather's report on 60 Minutes II, Wednesday at 8 p.m. ET/PT.
The discovery of the photographs by the Army led to an investigation which concluded that there were problems at the prison from the general in charge of the prison, to the military police guarding the prisoners. An investigation into abuse claims started in January, after a U.S. soldier came forward with allegations and evidence of abuse.
Kimmitt, in an interview conducted by satellite from Baghdad, told Correspondent Dan Rather: "We're appalled...these are our fellow soldiers, these are the people we work with every day, they represent us, they wear the same uniform as us, and they let their fellow soldiers down....We expect our soldiers to be treated well by the adversary, by the enemy...and if we can't hold ourselves up as an example of how to treat people with dignity and respect, we can't ask that other nations do that to our soldiers."
Kimmitt says even though charges have been filed against the six soldiers, a more general investigation continues into how prisoners are interrogated at the prison. One of the soldiers who is now facing court martial, Army Reserve Staff Sgt. Chip Frederick, described to Rather what he saw in the Iraqi prison.
"We had no support, no training whatsoever, and I kept asking my chain of command for certain things, rules and regulations, and it just wasn't happening," he said.
Frederick is charged with maltreatment, assault and indecent acts for posing for a photograph while sitting on top of a detainee, striking detainees and ordering detainees to strike each other, among other things.
Frederick wrote home to his family about the treatment of prisoners. He said in an e-mail: "We helped getting them to talk with the way we handle them. We've had a very high rate with our styles of getting them to break; they usually end up breaking within hours."
The pictures 60 Minutes II obtained show an Iraqi prisoner who, according to the U.S. Army, was told to stand on a box with his head covered and wires attached to his hands. That prisoner was told that if he fell off the box, he would be electrocuted. In another photograph, prisoners' bodies were stacked in a pyramid - one body had a slur written in English on his skin.
Despite the charges against American soldiers, Kimmitt says Americans shouldn't lose faith in the military – since the investigation is focused on a small number of soldiers, and doesn't reflect the conduct of the vast majority of U.S. forces.
"Frankly, I think all of us are disappointed by the actions of the few," says Kimmitt. "Every day we love our soldiers but frankly, somedays we're not always proud of our soldiers...It's a small, small minority of people we're talking about here, less than a dozen out of the 150,000 who are serving honorably and proudly over here....The Army is a values-based organization. We live by our values. Some of our soldiers every day die by our values and these acts that you see in these pictures may reflect the actions of individuals but by God it doesn't reflect my army."
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/04/27/60II/main614063.shtml
Message 81/147 06-May-04 @ 12:38 AM - RE:
what i want to know is when was it decided
THAT>?
these corporate f-22 salesmen-types should start to determine the nature of the american military's jobs and how they are to perform their tasks?
now we got sneaky nameless guys...CONTRACTORS so to speak....telling our armed forces to "soften" these guys up for us?
and when these soldiers do as asked (sir)...it's the military grunts which
GO DOWN>while
smooth-daddy WHO ordered it done....waltzes to another consultation?
what fiendish nazi crap.
these guys are the most un-american guys you could ever want to hold up on a pedestal...if you ask me.
it's obvious america is no longer about george washington or freedom or anything of the sort.
it's about.....kill anyone who stands in the way of the bush family.
but psssst.....you know...not KILL them...just kILL them.
and remember....... no MAS pictures ya stu[pid DORKz!!!!!
it's weird how we got an oil-man president and gas is at a gazillion dollars.
THAT>?
these corporate f-22 salesmen-types should start to determine the nature of the american military's jobs and how they are to perform their tasks?
now we got sneaky nameless guys...CONTRACTORS so to speak....telling our armed forces to "soften" these guys up for us?
and when these soldiers do as asked (sir)...it's the military grunts which
GO DOWN>while
smooth-daddy WHO ordered it done....waltzes to another consultation?
what fiendish nazi crap.
these guys are the most un-american guys you could ever want to hold up on a pedestal...if you ask me.
it's obvious america is no longer about george washington or freedom or anything of the sort.
it's about.....kill anyone who stands in the way of the bush family.
but psssst.....you know...not KILL them...just kILL them.
and remember....... no MAS pictures ya stu[pid DORKz!!!!!
it's weird how we got an oil-man president and gas is at a gazillion dollars.
Message 82/147 06-May-04 @ 07:06 AM - RE:
reprinting a letter i found at blessedcause.org.
if you read other stuff there, you'll find this person to be as fundamental a christian as they come:
We have lost the right to be in Iraq.
It was good to take Saddam down, our war effort against terrorism has been just, but after what a handful of soldiers did to Iraqi prisoners, we should leave immediately.
If we cannot trust our field commanders not to put sadists in charge, then we do not deserve the right to be there. I find it hard to believe our commanders did not realize the character of their selected soldiers. They are just as much to blame if not more. We should pull out, and pull out now.
My concern is for this man, Pfc. Keith Maupin and other POWs like him, what will happen to them because of what a handful of sick sadistic soldiers did?
Rather than let Maupin suffer the rage of Iraq, perhaps we should trade those same sadistic soldiers in for Maupin and any other POWs. Why must Maupin pay the price?
Remember how shocked we were when Shoshana Johnson, Ron Young and other American POWs were returned to us? Tom Hamill escaped relatively unharmed. Are the Iraqis treating American captives and POWs better than we treat theirs? Are we worse than terrorists? Do we dare hope for such miracles after what we've done to Iraqi prisoners?
There is no excuse. The abuse of Iraqi prisoners cannot be ignored. I do not blame President Bush, I do not blame our American soldiers in fact I applaud them, but what this handful of soldiers did has cost us, and because of their actions we should leave. We had a chance to do something glorious, we were working to change the world for the better, and we blew it. There should have been stringent precautions taken to avoid these abuses. It's more than just a handful of soldiers, it's the commanders that let it breed. Our right to be there is forfeit. America is responsible for what our soldiers have done. We should apologize and try to leave with what little dignity we have left. We should negotiate to leave with the return of our POWs before it's too late for them, if it isn't already.
And for the handful of Iraqis who put their trust in us and joined in our efforts, I think we should offer to bring them and their families back with us, not leave them behind to be slaughtered. We should form some sort of citizenship without voting privileges because there are so many Muslims that would need refuge, and Islam is working so hard to gain the majority in our government, it wouldn't be right to grant them our government along with protection. But protect them we must. Bring them home.
The media was INCENSED when they showed pictures of terrified faces of our U.S. POWs in Iraq. IMAGINE what we would have done if we saw pictures of our U.S. POWs being treated as the Iraqi POWs are being treated!
I AM OUTRAGED about what happened at 9/11. I am OUTRAGED about what happens to our soldiers in Iraq. But I am ALSO OUTRAGED about what we, who are supposed to be the "good guys" did to Iraqi prisoners. We were supposed to be liberating them, not *&%$%$ them, and I AM OUTRAGED that my country has been represented by a bunch of sadists. That our good American soldiers will now be vilified. That our POWs will probably be tortured likewise.
I think that if it's true any of the Iraqi's were sodomized, I hope the military has stiffer consequences than our blankety-blank liberal courts do in America. The US is currently glorifying homosexuality, we're being conditioned to accept it. MUSLIMS ARE NOT. These offenses are felt far more deeply than it ever would have to our decadent, public-school-porn-fed society.
I have been threatened, I have put my life on the line in many ways by being so confrontive about what is being taught to our children in public schools, soft-selling Islam. I have faced humiliation, mocking, being called a bigot and a whole assortment of offenses. I am not a lover of Islam by any means. But what we did to those we were "liberating" is an ABOMINATION.
Meanwhile, reports that the commanders might even lose their commands (gasp) is a further outrage. They should be brought up on charges along with the soldiers. They had to have known who they hand picked to watch over the prisoners. People who fight together know each other very well. Those commanders WERE RESPONSIBLE and should be facing prison sentences, not merely a court martial!
I believe in the efforts of President Bush and our military. It is a shame that all of our good work had to be tainted by a handful of soldiers and a couple of commanders. But it is tainted, nonetheless, and we should leave.
We should leave, and rethink the sexual deviance we teach our children in public school under the guise of "freedom."
if you read other stuff there, you'll find this person to be as fundamental a christian as they come:
We have lost the right to be in Iraq.
It was good to take Saddam down, our war effort against terrorism has been just, but after what a handful of soldiers did to Iraqi prisoners, we should leave immediately.
If we cannot trust our field commanders not to put sadists in charge, then we do not deserve the right to be there. I find it hard to believe our commanders did not realize the character of their selected soldiers. They are just as much to blame if not more. We should pull out, and pull out now.
My concern is for this man, Pfc. Keith Maupin and other POWs like him, what will happen to them because of what a handful of sick sadistic soldiers did?
Rather than let Maupin suffer the rage of Iraq, perhaps we should trade those same sadistic soldiers in for Maupin and any other POWs. Why must Maupin pay the price?
Remember how shocked we were when Shoshana Johnson, Ron Young and other American POWs were returned to us? Tom Hamill escaped relatively unharmed. Are the Iraqis treating American captives and POWs better than we treat theirs? Are we worse than terrorists? Do we dare hope for such miracles after what we've done to Iraqi prisoners?
There is no excuse. The abuse of Iraqi prisoners cannot be ignored. I do not blame President Bush, I do not blame our American soldiers in fact I applaud them, but what this handful of soldiers did has cost us, and because of their actions we should leave. We had a chance to do something glorious, we were working to change the world for the better, and we blew it. There should have been stringent precautions taken to avoid these abuses. It's more than just a handful of soldiers, it's the commanders that let it breed. Our right to be there is forfeit. America is responsible for what our soldiers have done. We should apologize and try to leave with what little dignity we have left. We should negotiate to leave with the return of our POWs before it's too late for them, if it isn't already.
And for the handful of Iraqis who put their trust in us and joined in our efforts, I think we should offer to bring them and their families back with us, not leave them behind to be slaughtered. We should form some sort of citizenship without voting privileges because there are so many Muslims that would need refuge, and Islam is working so hard to gain the majority in our government, it wouldn't be right to grant them our government along with protection. But protect them we must. Bring them home.
The media was INCENSED when they showed pictures of terrified faces of our U.S. POWs in Iraq. IMAGINE what we would have done if we saw pictures of our U.S. POWs being treated as the Iraqi POWs are being treated!
I AM OUTRAGED about what happened at 9/11. I am OUTRAGED about what happens to our soldiers in Iraq. But I am ALSO OUTRAGED about what we, who are supposed to be the "good guys" did to Iraqi prisoners. We were supposed to be liberating them, not *&%$%$ them, and I AM OUTRAGED that my country has been represented by a bunch of sadists. That our good American soldiers will now be vilified. That our POWs will probably be tortured likewise.
I think that if it's true any of the Iraqi's were sodomized, I hope the military has stiffer consequences than our blankety-blank liberal courts do in America. The US is currently glorifying homosexuality, we're being conditioned to accept it. MUSLIMS ARE NOT. These offenses are felt far more deeply than it ever would have to our decadent, public-school-porn-fed society.
I have been threatened, I have put my life on the line in many ways by being so confrontive about what is being taught to our children in public schools, soft-selling Islam. I have faced humiliation, mocking, being called a bigot and a whole assortment of offenses. I am not a lover of Islam by any means. But what we did to those we were "liberating" is an ABOMINATION.
Meanwhile, reports that the commanders might even lose their commands (gasp) is a further outrage. They should be brought up on charges along with the soldiers. They had to have known who they hand picked to watch over the prisoners. People who fight together know each other very well. Those commanders WERE RESPONSIBLE and should be facing prison sentences, not merely a court martial!
I believe in the efforts of President Bush and our military. It is a shame that all of our good work had to be tainted by a handful of soldiers and a couple of commanders. But it is tainted, nonetheless, and we should leave.
We should leave, and rethink the sexual deviance we teach our children in public school under the guise of "freedom."
Message 83/147 06-May-04 @ 08:42 AM - RE:
Long live creationism!
"We should form some sort of citizenship without voting privileges because there are so many Muslims that would need refuge, " - he should get a proper pet that will automaticaly love him, humans need work
"We should form some sort of citizenship without voting privileges because there are so many Muslims that would need refuge, " - he should get a proper pet that will automaticaly love him, humans need work
Message 84/147 06-May-04 @ 09:26 AM - RE:
Zazza
Posts: 1502
Link?: No link
File?: No file
Stupid, stupid stupid stupid...
The 'New American Century' (with poodle Bliar in tow) what a complete travesty on so many levels..
George and Tony? These arrogant morons should be sacked and forced to go serve on the front line in Fallujah for the next 10 years, or until they become collateral damage, whichever takes longest.
You can throw in the entire board of Haliburton and the rest of the corporate undead as well, and their spawn.
The 'New American Century' (with poodle Bliar in tow) what a complete travesty on so many levels..
George and Tony? These arrogant morons should be sacked and forced to go serve on the front line in Fallujah for the next 10 years, or until they become collateral damage, whichever takes longest.
You can throw in the entire board of Haliburton and the rest of the corporate undead as well, and their spawn.
Message 85/147 06-May-04 @ 11:06 AM - RE:
hur hur... I had to laugh.... they showed some footage of the Rice bitch on TV banging on about how such incidents were not acceptible cos America was democraticaly accountable and because people had legal rights under the USA etc
hmm... Like at Guantanamo bay then... er... lol... they really are up sh*t creek - it's hilarious.
hmm... Like at Guantanamo bay then... er... lol... they really are up sh*t creek - it's hilarious.
Message 86/147 06-May-04 @ 02:26 PM - RE:
"we had a chance to do something glorious.." lol no you fucking didn't. clue: if it's glorious, you're probably making it up.
Message 87/147 06-May-04 @ 03:14 PM - RE:
well....at least bush is driving a canadian bus as he tours the states heralding a strong, decisive, and unwavering america.
what's funny is that one of those states is michigan.....which is home to our auto-industry.
you think they're not gonna notice?
what's funny is that one of those states is michigan.....which is home to our auto-industry.
you think they're not gonna notice?
Message 88/147 06-May-04 @ 11:18 PM - RE:
That's not very free trade of you motor cyclist's concubine.
Message 89/147 07-May-04 @ 12:04 AM - RE:
very interesting article>
an faa official felt it was his right to destroy testimonial tapes recorded by air-controllers right after the 9/11 tragedy.
BECAUSE HE
FELT
it broke a rule...HE crushed serious historical testimony and cut the tape-up into pieces and spread the bits amongst several different trash-cans.
web-link
an faa official felt it was his right to destroy testimonial tapes recorded by air-controllers right after the 9/11 tragedy.
BECAUSE HE
FELT
it broke a rule...HE crushed serious historical testimony and cut the tape-up into pieces and spread the bits amongst several different trash-cans.
web-link
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