Forums - Theory / composition / technique
Subject: I feel stupid...
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Original Message 1/22 23-Feb-00 @ 05:32 AM - I feel stupid...
So take deep house/garage for example:
If I decide the key of a song, and want to make a bassline, what scale should I use - minor, major...what?
Should I bang out a bassline using the root and fifth notes? What rules do a simple bassline follow?
Once I know what key my song is in, how do I know what chords I can play with it?
Does house, or disco follow a chord progression?
I try not to let music theory ignorance get in my way, I'm still managing to churn out some nice house grooves, but time and time again it comes back to haunt me. So any theory tips relevant to making dance would be a welcome change. I just want some simple rules to point me in the right direction, I don't want to follow a dull formula, just lay down some rules that'd help or inspire me.
Hopefuly, any answers will benefit other people like myself who come from a dj'ing or more technical background.
Message 2/22 23-Feb-00 @ 05:34 AM - RE: I feel stupid...
Message 3/22 23-Feb-00 @ 02:51 PM - RE: I feel stupid...
I known it's pretty tough at first learning this things, since i figure out most of them by myself time ago. There may some innacurancies in the following stuff... but I'm pretty sure that I learned the basic ;)
I discover that... yes, there are rules, but they are not so much. Let's start.
When u have decided the key of a song you usually decide the minor / major stuff also, since the "minor" and "major" flavors lead to different notes in the scale. So for example if u decide that C is your key and "major" your flavor then you'll have the simple: C D E F G A B scale, instead if your choice is the "minor" one, well, you'll have the C D Eb F G Ab Gb scale (I didn't play this one... I hope it's correct).
As far as i known, the "minor" flavor is somewhat "sad"or "dark". After all, i think it's a personal choice, I think. If you are jamming around in, say, Dminor, and u find a nice riff your entire song should follow that scale.
Then... u've found that nice riff in that minor scale, right? Then the bassline should follow that scale also. Simple. Bassline however should follow the beats rather than your riffs... just listen to any decent track. Using the root and other notes of the chosen scale assure you to stay in tune with the rest of the song parts.
Chords. Again you chose the chords by playng only the notes in the scale. For example if your scale is C you can play the C major, A minor, D minor and so on.
There's ton of docs on the internet about chords... jum p to: http://www.harmony-central.com/ and take a look.
There's tip #1... stay on the scale!
bye.
Message 4/22 23-Feb-00 @ 06:57 PM - RE: I feel stupid...
Message 5/22 23-Feb-00 @ 07:34 PM - RE: I feel stupid...
Message 6/22 23-Feb-00 @ 10:21 PM - RE: I feel stupid...
peaceout
Message 7/22 23-Feb-00 @ 10:30 PM - RE: I feel stupid...
Message 8/22 23-Feb-00 @ 10:31 PM - RE: I feel stupid...
Message 9/22 23-Feb-00 @ 10:39 PM - RE: I feel stupid...
Peaceout
Message 10/22 23-Feb-00 @ 10:41 PM - RE: I feel stupid...
Message 11/22 24-Feb-00 @ 05:35 AM - RE: I feel stupid...
The thing is, I've been making tracks for about two years now and every so often I seem to panic about theory. It's like I'm terrified that someone will listen to one of my tracks and say "that's out of key". I try to trust my ears, but I just need some knowledge to help me get the music out of my head and into a track. Basslines and riffs are not a problem (knowing the basics helps though), the nightmare is when I try to lay some chords on top...it's all starting to come together slowly though!
Again pardon my ignorance, but what's a tonic?
I know there's tons of music theory on the web, but none that directly relates to dance music.
"you choose the chords by playing only the notes in the scale"...out of everything I've read, nothing has been said on this! Well maybe it has, but was just written in such a mind numbingly boring way that I never picked it up.
Getting advice from other dance orientated musicians makes it so much easier to understand - cheers for your patience!
So much to learn, so little time...
Message 12/22 24-Feb-00 @ 10:08 AM - RE: I feel stupid...
Message 13/22 24-Feb-00 @ 12:45 PM - RE: I feel stupid...
The tonic: The thing you mix with the gin ~ . If you're piece is in A, then A is the tonic, or the I (one).
Are you building your song around a chord progression? Are are you wanting to use chord stabs? You can do a chordal melody by putting your melodic line on top and harmonizing underneath it. Maybe a variation on or something that responds to your bass line?
Sometimes it's the "wrong" notes that give the tension or the dissonance that contrasts with the "right" notes. Some jazz player, I forget who, said something to the effect of if you play one wrong note, play it three or four more times emphatically and people will think you meant it. It's OK to know what the right notes are as long as you're not handcuffed by that knowledge.
Be careful of over-harmonizing things, too. Sometimes transposing something around so the tonal center moves around can sound better than making sure all the notes conform the the key you've "decided" that the work is in. Revert to saved! There's songs that are all dominant seventh chords, no straight triads, no minors where they should normally be, and if done right, it rocks.
And don't feel stupid. You never stop learning or progressing as long as you keep trying.
Message 14/22 24-Feb-00 @ 06:08 PM - RE: I feel stupid...
Message 15/22 24-Feb-00 @ 06:59 PM - RE: I feel stupid...
Message 16/22 24-Feb-00 @ 07:39 PM - RE: I feel stupid...
so bout the bass lines: 1-4-5 and b7 are always good for bass lines. also important are "pick up" notes, that is, usually a note a 1/2 step above or below the note your playing on the beat (pick up notes are usually 1/8 or 1/16 notes). they're used to give movement to the bass lines.
-p.
Message 17/22 25-Feb-00 @ 10:14 AM - RE: I feel stupid...
I would bet my minor scale was wrong, a stupid typo got in the way. My mistyped version is C D Eb F G Ab Gb, should be C D Eb F G Ab Bb. Like "p" said: a melodic minor scale. to get melodic u "flatten" 3rd, 6th and 7th note of the scale. To get the harmonic one you "flatten" only the 3rd and 6th note. Just correct me ya guys if this is wrong. I'm a newbie also. ;)
And back to the bassline issue, check:
http://www.harmony-central.com/Bass/Articles/Running_with_the_Bass/00index3.html
bye
Message 18/22 03-Mar-00 @ 03:35 PM - RE: I feel stupid...
Your ears are the best guide.
-Craig
Message 19/22 11-Mar-00 @ 07:36 PM - RE: I feel stupid...
Message 20/22 13-Mar-00 @ 12:03 PM - RE: I feel stupid...
Message 21/22 15-Mar-00 @ 10:07 PM - RE: I feel stupid...
I think p. hit it. Trust your ear. One thing I like to do (if I wasn't so lazy, i'd point you to some tunes that I've written and put up on the web - but I'm lazy and don't have anything up) is alternate between major and minor. Key changes are very effective when used properly. You can change keys from one section of a song to another (maybe from the main riff to the bridge, etc.) or you could even do it in the main progression. Try playing chords Aminor for 4 beats, Dminor for 3 beats, Amajor for 1 beat, and go where your ear takes you.
I know classical theory, some jazz theory, and rock theory. Never heard of dance theory. Hmmm.
Message 22/22 17-Mar-00 @ 02:41 PM - RE: I feel stupid...
had something called "running with the bass"
one of those tutorial type things. it's really
for bass guitar but it talks about doing
interesting bass lines over a given chord
progression. decent reading.
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