Forums - Theory / composition / technique
Subject: music as language
Viewing all 44 messages - View by pages of 10: 1 2 3 4 5
Original Message 1/44 23-Apr-00 @ 04:03 PM - music as language
Peaceout
Message 2/44 24-Apr-00 @ 05:11 PM - RE: music as language
ape
Message 3/44 25-Apr-00 @ 12:14 AM - RE: music as language
I've experienced the opposite effect. I say something and people look at me like I've just tweeked the cutoff frequency.
Message 4/44 25-Apr-00 @ 09:28 AM - RE: music as language
I took the liberty to supply you the adress off
"Elektrisches Descent" a group off interntationall Rebirther's. who just take the gasp out off you, and all whit this wondefull litlle proggie. just Listen to "Electronic Bird Off paradise (morning light" nad se what you think. Now that's music talking.. Man and the poetry just complies the music in a mysticall way..
But as for expressing, Definetly, Especailly in ambient and other smooth music, and perhaps goa..
/peace out
Divine_Radiance
Message 5/44 25-Apr-00 @ 01:05 PM - RE: music as language
Message 7/44 25-Apr-00 @ 03:03 PM - RE: music as language
and goa goa goa, hehehe...
Message 8/44 25-Apr-00 @ 04:42 PM - RE: music as language
....more waffle at a later date.....
....much mre, I'm afraid.......
Message 9/44 28-Apr-00 @ 03:55 AM - RE: music as language
Message 10/44 28-Apr-00 @ 03:00 PM - RE: music as language
Message 11/44 28-Apr-00 @ 04:54 PM - RE: music as language
After I played one of my live sets a kid came up to me and said that to me. He extrapolated it a bit, but that statement really is a good description of how I move through life, and how I compose my music. It put a smile on my face.
Peaceout
Message 12/44 30-Apr-00 @ 10:53 PM - RE: music as language
Message 13/44 01-May-00 @ 08:17 AM - RE: music as language
will have simple lyrics that if you just said
them, might sound trite, but put them in a song,
and suddenly you get something profound out of
them, because of the mood set by the music....
Message 14/44 05-May-00 @ 10:24 AM - RE: music as language
interested in experimental/ industrial music, which
lead me to old school noise makers like Temple of
Psychick Youth and Psychick TV. These guys were pretty
interested in brain waves, and how our brain works when
different frequencies are most amplified and what hertz
certain ranges are running out. These waves can be
tuned by playing a sound, or flickering a light, which
the brain will try to match - like the heartbeats of
two lovers falling into synch over the course of a
night of sleep.
So, to shorten things up a bit, when we are asleep, we
are in a full alpha state - our subconscious is most
active. Alpha states can be induced using LSD
(halucinations are just alpha waves) and other mind
altering drugs, visiting revival tent meeetings,
chatting with Hare Krishnas at the airport, and going
to raves and listening to some forms of techno.
Rythms of light, sound, dynamics of tone and some hand
movements, as well as the use of certain rythmic
phrases (or mantras, which the military calls
neurolinguistics I think) can induce alpha states. In
these states, people are more open to the influence of
others, more empathetic, which is why the military and
cults are interested.
However, music can do the same, for positive, benign
benefits. It's quite a complicated area to cover here,
but if there's interest maybe we can thread on this for
a bit.
Anyone find this interesting? Raves are as close to a
religious experience as some people will ever get, and
I think the alpha state ha
Message 15/44 06-May-00 @ 01:42 AM - RE: music as language
Message 16/44 06-May-00 @ 05:36 AM - RE: music as language
Nice 1, Casparproject!!
That's exactly wat I'm researchin right now....but hadnt thaught of the title....cheers mate
Message 17/44 08-May-00 @ 05:22 AM - RE: music as language
Message 18/44 08-May-00 @ 09:42 AM - RE: music as language
some coherent posts. If anyone else feels like doing
some web searches as well in the mean time, it may
increase our resources.
You know, I'm sure I'm not the only one reasearching
and trying to figure out how to utilize this stuff, but
it's always been my own secret project until now
It iwll be interesting to see if anyone can learn to
incorporate brain wave frequencies into their music (I
haven't... yet).
If anyone has the new copy of 'CoolEdit', I've been
told it will encode low frequency pulses into audio
files for the specific purpose of altering brain wave
frequencies in the listener.
Post mo
Message 19/44 08-May-00 @ 10:05 AM - RE: music as language
should check out these links regarding alpha (and
other) states and brain waves. Then we can discuss the
practical applications (bpm to frequency conversion,
note to frequency conversion, etc.) later.
http://www.magnet.ch/serendipity/sutphen/brainwsh.html
This is a link to a site with brain washing info. If
you think this has nothing to do with raves, and music,
you're mistaken. Raves incorporate all the right
elements, but most djs/ promoters/ musicians don't know
why people respond the way they do, they just know it
works.
http://www.crhsc.umontreal.ca/dreams/zinfo.htm
Medical info on brain states, unbiased.
http://www.brainsync.com/bwstates.asp
Not quite unbiased info on brain states. Acurate, but
it's from a new age site, so take it with a grain of
salt.
If this is too heavy for someone, maybe me or someone
else can condense it and post something. Is everyone
still inte
Message 20/44 09-May-00 @ 04:13 AM - RE: music as language
Thanks for the linx!
Message 21/44 09-May-00 @ 08:20 AM - RE: music as language
earlier posts to get a jump start or better
comprehension of what the heck I'm talking about).
Ok, anyone who proposes to write music specifically
engineered to tune the brain (likely alpha) waves of
the lsitener, should be careful. If you've read 'The
Battle for Your Mind by Dick Sutphen' which I linked to
in an earlier post, you will understand that these
techniques can be used for benign or malicious
purposes. God forbid televangelists figure out what
trance and raves do to people!!
Ok, 90% of your listeners will be experienced ravers.
They have experienced alpha states through going to
parties where the combined effects of over stimulation,
light and sound have already iniated an easy transition
from beta to alpha. Combined with the use of LSD or
just about any other drug, these people are unknowingly
becoming experienced alpha state travellers. Moving to
an alpha state is easier, the more it happens. Be
warned - excessive dwelling in an alpha state can
become permanent, even if it's through meditation or
music. We need all our states to be mentally healthy!
If you want proof of this 'ease of revisitation', just
look at the kids outside the rave - all they can hear
is the thud of bass and they're already getting happy
and relaxed. The mind is ready to get into a full alpha
state!
It should be noted that most promoters, DJs and
musicians have no idea what they're doing, they just
know that the music, beats and light create the desired
reactions.
Ok, the most obvious place to start experimenting is
with rythm:
Take your bass drum and count how many hits you have in
1 minute. Then divide it by 60 to get the hz (cycles
per second). Most of my tracks are about 2.5hz (welcome
to the delta state. Ever find some tracks make you
sleepy?). However - you can push this up higher with
other rythms, like hi-hats, or just a subtle modulated
drone in the background.
Next the less obvious: Notes themselves. Here's a table
listing the frequencies of the notes, assuming a is
440hz - http://oyt.oulu.fi/notfreq.html
However, We can create more subtle rythms by employing
modulation (not to be underestimated). By combining
notes, we can create a waver in a droning note that
will have the same effect as a pulse. This is very
powerful stuff, and you can accent peaks with your
percussion.
So what good is the melody if all you need is rythm?
Melody opens up the consious mind, keeps the interest
held while the rythms and drones go to work tuning the
brains own frequency, the firing of synapses. Once you
have the audience's attention, DON'T LET GO, or you
will break the trance. If the beat stops, breaking the
trance, the melody had better hold their conscious
attention.
I'm trying to find a link to a great trance theory site
I found once, that really explained the power of trance
quite well... my search engine is useless today.
Oh, here's the frequency ranges and characteristics of
the different states/ bandwidths:
BETA 13-40hz
Alertness, Concentration, Focus & Cognition
Alpha 7-12hz
Relaxation, Visualization, & Creativity
Theta 4-7hz
Intuition, Memory, Meditation & Vivid Visual Imagery
Delta 0-4hz
Deep Sleep, Healing & Detached Awarness
Ok, I'm tired of typing. I know this stuff seems
obvious, but if you experiment with it, you will find
that the reactions to your tracks will become extremely
favourable.
Hows about some feedback? Anyon
Message 22/44 09-May-00 @ 09:30 AM - RE: music as language
conversation away from philosphical wanderings. I
really want to start using much more of these
techniques in my own music, and hopefully other readers
are looking to do the same.
One thing I forgot to mention: the classic trance/
techno/ house sounds. When use use classic Nova or 303
sounds, there's a plethora of advantages.
I'll use an example. If you sample John Lennon playing
a chord on his guitar, you get a bunch of things. You
get the actually note(s) of the chord, you get the
recognition on behalf of an informed audience (they
recognize the chord, timbre, etc. as being familiar,
this is important), and you get all the passion John
put into that chord.
When you use classic sounds, especially sounds that
most people will have definitely heard in other tracks,
and have likely alpha'd in, you will be more likely to
induce an alpha state, because (as mentioned in my
previous post), the alpha state is often triggered by
familiar sounds, light, etc.
It would be harder to use all original or uncommon
sounds and induce an alpha state. It's not impossible,
but it will be harder. You probably won't get played as
much either...
Look at the top acts on Mp3.com or other site. 80% of
the top trance (I can't speak for other genres) use all
the same sounds. Often the actual composition is really
lacking any creativity, but what they have going is the
Message 23/44 09-May-00 @ 10:52 AM - RE: music as language
Message 24/44 10-May-00 @ 09:08 AM - RE: music as language
Message 25/44 11-May-00 @ 01:11 PM - RE: music as language
-justin
Message 26/44 12-May-00 @ 07:05 AM - RE: music as language
Message 27/44 12-May-00 @ 11:23 AM - RE: music as language
Message 28/44 14-May-00 @ 04:33 PM - RE: music as language
And hey, I am absolutely interested in this thread, best on dt right now, so lets continue, lets share all of our info.
Message 29/44 15-May-00 @ 06:24 PM - RE: music as language
Peaceout,
Peter
Message 30/44 25-May-00 @ 08:48 AM - Planetary Frequencies
notes combined create nodal points/ hz? I have a note
to hz conversion chart need be, and would be totally
interested in that info. I have known about this, but
haven't found anything solid to go on...
Regarding planetary resonances, I met a fellow once who
wrote music based on the resonant frequencies of
planets.
For instance, the earth has a resonant 10hz frequency
(called the Shuman Resonance). We don't notice it,
because we spend our entire lives immersed in it, as a
fish is immersed in water. We would probably notice
it's absence if we left the earth and went into low
orbit, or to another planet.
Anyways, this fellow writes music based on how the
universe sounded on a particular day - such as the day
arch Duke Ferdinand was shot (and started one of the
World Wars).
Obviously, 10hz is too low to hear, but could be
applied as a rythm or shifted up to a frequency we can
hear.
A track with a 150BPM bass kick has a 2.5hz pulse
created by the kick drum. This pulse is mid-delta
(brain wave) range, but is also a factor of 10
(2.5*4=10). 10hz is not only the earths r.f. but also
smack dab in the middle of the alpha (7-12) brain wave
range.
I better read the latest posts now.. I think I'm out of
touch with where this thread is g
Message 31/44 25-May-00 @ 12:07 PM - RE: music as language
Message 32/44 25-May-00 @ 03:19 PM - RE: music as language
experience ecstasy (relaxed yet energized) from such
environments as parks and hiking trails: ecstasy being
the point of lots of electronic music.
An aside note here: The most pleasing sound to the
human mind is 4.5 decibals of rushing water. Alot of
meditation practitioners focus on the sound of their
breathing to enter the meditative state - the sound we
hear our entire lives. Oddly enough, both of these
sounds, are pretty close to static - sound filled with
random yet somehow always the same frequencies.
So what are you getting at, k, with this colour stuff?
Got any links to the effects of colours on
Message 33/44 27-May-00 @ 10:21 AM - RE: music as language
Ape
Message 34/44 06-Jun-00 @ 03:41 AM - RE: music as language
But seriously folks, any idea of why the earth's r.f. is 10 hz? And is it exactly 10hz, or does it vary, say 9.5-10.5. Okay, here's a far out one: If you blasted a sound loud enough at 10hz (I'm talking only fantasy again) could we rip the earth apart? Ever seen that bridge in washington state, just newly built, in a storm? The wind through the suspension cables generated a sound at the r.f. of the bridge and that fucker just starts getting loosy goosy, swinging around, and osolations increase, and then no more bridge! I wonder if we could do that with the earth? you think? anyone work for the DOD know about that?
Message 35/44 06-Jun-00 @ 02:04 PM - RE: music as language
The 10hz tone of the earth is not audible, maybe not
even audible to anything alive, because it's so low (in
freq. and amplitude). We don't notice it anyways...
It can be measured, and alot of gear used for measuring
ultra-low frequencies has to be dampened or adjusted
for 'background noise' such as the earth's 10hz and
other deformned radio and sound waves.
It probably doesn't vary alot. Any astrophysicists
among us? If it does vary, it would be with our
proximity to the sun, likely - which, oddly enough,
moves in whole fractions. I don't think there's a
quantum theory of gravity yet, so this discussion
dosn't have much to draw on...
For instance, at the earth's furthest point from the
sun being 1, our closest point is exactly 2/3. Plot
that on a musical scale with C being 1, 2/3 of C is G -
perfect harmony. All the planets move in whole
fractions...
Pythagorus based his musical scale on the scaffold of
the planets... he was almost right too - except they
don't travel in perfect circles, they travel in perfect
ellipses.
Anyone find any info on frequency combining and 'nodal'
waves, yet? I haven't found anything in my web travels
yet..
Message 36/44 07-Jun-00 @ 06:22 PM - RE: music as language
Ape
Message 37/44 08-Jun-00 @ 08:15 AM - RE: music as language
engine draws a blank
Message 38/44 09-Jun-00 @ 12:24 AM - RE: music as language
Message 39/44 11-Jun-00 @ 09:23 AM - RE: music as language
I had an experience in my 1st year of studying sitar. I was in my friends house in the countryside playing something I had learned. I talked him into playing the tamboura (a 4-6 stringed instrument, the sole purpose of which is to create a carpet of sound over which to play...like the original pad I guess). It was night and as I was playing I started to hear this beautiful soothing and very powerful sound crescendo, completely in tune with the instruments. Strangley it sounded at first like it was coming from a star I could see through the livingroom window, but then it was omnipresent...coming from everything around me. It lasted for a minute or so I think as I kept playing. It faded and I played for another minute or 2. I remember saying to my friend "WOOOOW! DID_YOU_HEAR_THAT?!!! He answered "Hear what?" and I didn't extropolate on it 'cause it was too big to be missed if you were going to hear anything. Strange why I heard it and someone sitting 3 feet across from me didn't. I wasn't high on anything btw.
Message 40/44 11-Jun-00 @ 03:38 PM - RE: music as language
Message 41/44 12-Jun-00 @ 09:16 AM - RE: music as language
Message 42/44 13-Jun-00 @ 08:43 AM - RE: music as language
Ape
Message 43/44 13-Jun-00 @ 02:19 PM - RE: music as language
Message 44/44 13-Jun-00 @ 06:12 PM - RE: music as language
There's several groups of folk that have done brainwave/sound studies. Most center around the idea of 'entrainment' which has been covered to some extent in the earlier posts. Basically, it assumes the brain is like a tuning fork. When you strike a tuning fork and bring it near a similar static one, the static one will begin to vibrate sympathetically with the original. Entrainment assumes that same thing happens with the brain.
Also, not the same thing but along the same lines, check out the work of MaryAnne Armacher. She's got some CDs and a book about creating sound inside the ear. One of the examples can be found on her 'Sound Characters' disc. She creates these sounds that create other sounds inside your own ear canal! Pretty interesting stuffs...
As for music being a language, certainly. I'm a bit of an emotional 'retard' and I have a great deal of trouble expressing emotions in words, but with sound... altogether different matter. There have been many times when I've felt I couldn't describe something in words, but I could play 'its sound.' I also tend to think that sound might be a lot bigger than we think. There's those 'golden moments' when it seems like I'm sitting there 'watching' myself play as if I were not the one pulling the strings. that tends to be some of the best stuff I get down, yet it feels very hard to take credit for something I just 'let happen.' When the muse whispers, listen...
As for blowing up the Earth with sound, sure, in theory it can be done. You'd have to have a hell of a sound system though. A couple of tidbits from me days in the military: a powerful enough high frequency sound can burn the skin right off your bones. A powerful enough low frequency sound can literally turn you into jello - just before it blasts you into oblivion. Of course, you'd need a woofer driven by a piston the size of the London Tower, but it could work. however, very economically prohibitive....
Anyhoos, great thread folks, this is what I love about this site!
Peace All
Viewing all 44 messages - View by pages of 10: 1 2 3 4 5
There are 44 total messages for this topic
Reply to Thread
You need to register/login to use the forum.
Click here to Signup or Login !
[you'll be brought right back to this point after signing up]
Back to Forum