Forums - Theory / composition / technique
Subject: No more theory?
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Original Message 1/20 03-Jul-00 @ 07:24 AM - No more theory?
Ape
Message 2/20 04-Jul-00 @ 12:44 PM - RE: No more theory?
does anyone actually know any produciton-related theory? i'm also really interested to find out why things work the way they do (i.e add reverb to a driving track's kick and it has a completely different effect... goes from driving to floating), or is there no real reason, and it's all just learned response?
cause i really think someone should teach us all the truth, there are a LOT of little things that i'm sure we're all aware of but don't actually "know"...
so please school me.
Message 3/20 04-Jul-00 @ 06:29 PM - RE: No more theory?
Large amounts of alcohol !! :o)
Marc.
Message 4/20 05-Jul-00 @ 01:27 AM - RE: No more theory?
peaceout,
Peter
Message 5/20 05-Jul-00 @ 06:17 AM - RE: No more theory?
My fingers wouldn't move !!!!
No more drinking before playing now (I'll stick to smoking to counter the nerves)
Marc.
Message 6/20 05-Jul-00 @ 06:23 AM - RE: No more theory?
BUT - as far as mixing a track for club release goes; my advice is this:
(1.) Write your tune (2.) Listen to your favourite tunes in the same genre you have just written (3.) Now set the levels of your track to mimic the mix of the professionally done recording you've just listened to.
Easy. Your mix should now come out all right at the pressing - phew.
Message 7/20 05-Jul-00 @ 01:23 PM - RE: No more theory?
Message 8/20 05-Jul-00 @ 02:11 PM - RE: No more theory?
As far as live, booze might work for sloppy rock acts but...
Marc, were you doing your best Replacements impression back then? Those guys were always hammered.
I gave up any kind of mind candy quite a while ago. Weird enough without it, they tell me. Only vice now is strong coffee. But before, I found it best to save the fun 'til after the job was done. Y'know, stumble out of a smoke filled van, go into a dim room with colored lights and space out on what all those little buttons and knobs are sposed to do. Concentrate on little details, but lose the big picture. Anyway...
Message 9/20 06-Jul-00 @ 08:43 AM - RE: No more theory?
Anyways, I have some production tips, which you're
welcome not to use. I've been writing and experimenting
for 12 years, now, but I'm still a novice, so if you
think you're above my ideas, I don't care. I just want
to get a discussion going.
Here goes:
Adding atmosphere: I used to work with alot of samples,
specifically through a tracker program, which had no
effects. I would often take an airy, or static-like hit
or swell and play it simultaneously with a drum or
synth hit, maybe even shifting the pitch in the oposite
direction of a melodic synth line. This was a great way
to add some ambience to an ambience-less sound, and I
was able to get some really interesting sounds and
atmospheres that no combination of effects would
probably generate. I think Aphex Twin does this alot.
Noise as arpegiator: When I did alot of industrial I
would take machine sounds, maybe with some rythmic
static or other incedental noises, and play a melody or
bass-line progression over it. It's interesting,
because a kind of harmony seems to develop with the
interplay of the melody and noise. I am convinced that
almost any noise can be tamed by a dominant
progression. Try it! It works in trance, too (and screw
worrying about the key). It seems that productive
frequencies are emphasised, and dissonant frequencies
are de-emphasised, or become incendental tones.
Tone Generating: I used to use an 8088PC running
QBasic, make up some algorythms and randomly pull
numbers, which I would play as a tone. Sometimes, I
would just have a pitch rising slowly between 1000 and
2500 (2500hz being the resonating frequency of a cellos
belly), and then back down. I could play this quietly,
with some delay, and get an interesting effect useful
in almost any track. It really made things feel like
there was some movement going on, especially in slower,
more new-age-y or instrospective stuff. I could play
this pretty quietly, since at 2500hz, there wasn't may
other frequencies competing for space. Simple tone
slides are
Message 10/20 06-Jul-00 @ 12:52 PM - RE: No more theory?
Here's one of my favourites (stop me if you've heard it): interesting background noise for Ambient/trancy stuff can be generated by taking cymbal samples and slowing them r i g h t d o w n .......
Marc
Ps. I think we were trying to be more like Discharge than The Replacements :o)
Message 11/20 06-Jul-00 @ 01:37 PM - RE: No more theory?
Ape
Message 12/20 06-Jul-00 @ 06:19 PM - RE: No more theory?
After: Bliss, it's like a weight has been lifted from my shoulders.
I've never taken the dance stuff out live though
Marc.
Message 13/20 07-Jul-00 @ 10:20 PM - RE: No more theory?
I tripped across how cool pitched down cymbals mix with sounds just this morning, damn i thought i had my own little trick. I've been at this since i was 13, and i was all excited about being able to finally get some hardware this summer, and the trans and clutch decide to go out on the saab and screw my budget......argh.
Message 14/20 08-Jul-00 @ 03:22 AM - RE: No more theory?
To thicken a thin vocal track use the original track center panned, then put the same vocals at 50% volume hard panned left detuned -3 cents and the same vocals at 50% volume hard panned right at +3cents... Sounds nice!
Hope these help!
Message 15/20 08-Jul-00 @ 10:35 AM - RE: No more theory?
I probably said this in the past but here goes. Music used to be more departmentalized. I learned 16th century counterpoint and harmony in school, or was it 17th century. That is the basis for western classical music. Composers had to know that stuff. Players of musical instruments had to know how to read the notes and produce the best sound from their instruments. Conductors had to know how to make the ensemble sound like one unit on the same page with feeling. Instrument makers had to know the dynamics that go into building an instrument that made the sounds that came out. Then when recording came into play, the engineering thing kicked in. And the performance hall designers had to know about acoustics. Can't forget them.
We have people making gear with all that goes into that. But apart from that, those of us making this music today are trying our darndest to do all of the above. And there are some crazys who won't feel satisfied until they've built their own synths. There is theory to all of the components but music has gone into less defined areas where you can't necessarily say where each component starts and begins. You have to create a sound that fits the melody you've written or more likely visa versa. You have to start mixing the minute you add the second track because you can hear the tracks played back at you a split second after you write them. You have to create the type of room ambience you want to fit the mood. Tell the virtual musicians how to swing and I could go on but you get the point. Lots of stuff to do. Sometimes we even press our own cds. I gotta stop. I'm scaring myself.
Message 16/20 08-Jul-00 @ 08:38 PM - RE: No more theory?
First, what goes through me head before a performance: I get the 'tech' parts set. Like Peter, I get those details set, make sure all the bits are working, etc. Then an hour or so before 'showtime' I'll sit down behind me gear and 'commune' with the electronics. Sounds flaky, but it makes me feel connected. A few folks usually ask my techs what the hell I'm doing up there sitting behind my kit (I don't like to be interuppted during my 'meditation' so I have me techs keep folk away...), but I dunna let it bother me. I get too much out of doing it. I'll hang like that for thirty minutes to an hour, then away we go...
About adding atmosphere to a driving track: check the link above for a simple example of how 'I' might handle that. The track is butt simple, mostly samples and some live playing, and me and me guitarist friend did it in an evening. However, it does have a sense of 'space' in certain parts. There's so many approaches to how this might be done, and I use several on that track. I'm gonna sit down and describe some of it later tonight, and I'll post it to a new 'atmospheres' thread.
Peace
Message 17/20 09-Jul-00 @ 10:12 AM - RE: No more theory?
Ape
Message 18/20 10-Jul-00 @ 07:20 AM - RE: No more theory?
I think a lot of Pongoid's tips would work just as well in the studio, knowledge of where your heads at is always a good starting point in any musical endeavour.
Next easy tip - Get hold of Bram Bos's Moonfish, it's got the greatest lame timestretch feature that really adds spice to samples and stuff (used sparingly)
Marc.
Message 19/20 10-Jul-00 @ 10:37 AM - RE: No more theory?
for me, playing out whatever was going through my mind
with my toys. Othertimes, it's just emotional
expression, and the technique and technical is added
lastly. Write at night, mix in the morning...
Cheer
Message 20/20 11-Jul-00 @ 01:19 AM - RE: No more theory?
Peaceout,
Peter
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