Help on how to make TRANCE beat - Drums / rhythms / programming forums

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Subject: Help on how to make TRANCE beat

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Original Message 1/19 18-Jul-00 @ 03:28 PM - Help on how to make TRANCE beat

toomas

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Hey!

Im a big fan of Ferry Corsten , Dj tiesto , Rank1, Dutchforce.

I need help in making their style of drum grooves and i need drum samples.

Please add me on ICQ#: 71538338

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Message 2/19 19-Jul-00 @ 03:36 AM - RE: Help on how to make TRANCE beat

JAWA

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You wanna start off with finding a nice kik, there's this program called Stomper and you can create some amazingly fat kiks that are perfect for this genre..... its freeware and somewhere on the internet.....

For your snare a fat 909 snare with some compression and a bit of reverb would do just fine......

For HiHats? 909 open, longish decay..... you can experiment with 909 closed or 808 closed depending on which sits better..... But don't forget a bit of 'verb
and posibly a touch of delay......

And a tambourine filtered a bit to give it some pace....

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Message 3/19 19-Jul-00 @ 07:53 AM - RE: Help on how to make TRANCE beat

ggehiere

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I've found trance grooves harder to develop than I
thought it would be. It's easy to get a standard beat
going, the groove part is harder. I'm suprised Dj
Tiesto is on your list of drum-groove influences,
toomas - I like his selections fine, but the drums in
the tracks he chooses don't always have that much
groove (just standard 4 on the floor stuff, really),
just alot of arrangement to make up for it. That's only
my opinion...

I've had good results with sampled hihats, especially
little hihat trills and so forth that are difficult to
sequence myself. Alot of trance seems to use the sound
of an open hihat closing, which is difficult to
generate using most drum machines (except maybe the
Nova DrumStation), so samples are useful for these.
Also, a good assortment of claps (and reverse claps)
are helpful, because they add alot of atmosphere to the
drums.

Break beats are getting more popular in trance now, and
it's easy to see why: They really add some movement and
groove to the melodic break downs where it's not so
dynamic to just run the hihats or any other 4/4 beat.
I've also had some good results running a standard 4/4
progression over a breakbeat, which really adds groove
to the track. A friend of mine said that in jungle,
melodies are used to give the listener a break from the
beat, but in trance, beats are used to give the
listener a break from the melody.

Good luck. The added groove is th

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Message 4/19 19-Jul-00 @ 09:02 AM - RE: Help on how to make TRANCE beat

Jasper

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that's a pretty good example.. trance tracks have a very up and down progression.. and you'll find that even the cheesiest melody part can suddenly break down to a stonking groove..

try this (but you need a sampler with modulation capeability).. get a 909 snare and stick it on all the 1/16ths.. set the lfo to 1/4 bar length so it's cycling 4 times a bar.. map the lfo to filter.. set the filter to a lowpass 24db type and basically tweak the resonance and filter position until you get a decent sound. try mapping the lfo to pitch as well (you never know)

you'll need to mess with velocities and other shit.. but this sort of gives you an idea of how you could get one part of you rythm.

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Message 5/19 19-Jul-00 @ 04:51 PM - RE: Help on how to make TRANCE beat

JAWA

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Also, a lot of that mystic groove lies in the basslines

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Message 6/19 22-Jul-00 @ 09:17 PM - RE: Help on how to make TRANCE beat

ignorant novice

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whats the open and the closed on that grid?

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Message 7/19 23-Jul-00 @ 06:45 AM - RE: Help on how to make TRANCE beat

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hi-hats - open & closed

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Message 8/19 29-Jul-00 @ 11:38 PM - RE: Help on how to make TRANCE beat

phunkytek

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i have no problem with the groove part, but I have a hard time getting my hats and cymbols to sound washed and airy. I've compressed the shit out of the samples, but should I run reverb as an insert then compress the result as well. Also I hear a lot of sustained reverbs that are then filtered. This softness is very dificult for me to attain. Previously all I did was breaks. I think it's in the reverb and all I have is this VST wonder Verb. My Waves Power Pack Platnum bundle will be here shortly.

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Message 9/19 30-Jul-00 @ 08:23 AM - RE: Help on how to make TRANCE beat

r-tek

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I dunno `bout compressing hats and cymbals - to get em sounding light and airy, whats wrong with a hipass filter? Just resample and normalize, maybe add some eq and you`re there.

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Message 10/19 30-Jul-00 @ 04:50 PM - RE: Help on how to make TRANCE beat

Jasper

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maybe a bit of reverb that also has plenty of hipass on it.. go for a close reverb sound rather than washing it all over.. a short decay and that.

btw - an enhancer works wonders but don't over do it.

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Message 11/19 31-Jul-00 @ 10:36 AM - RE: Help on how to make TRANCE beat

ggehiere

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To elaborate on JAWA's comment regarding basslines:

Trance often uses a pedal bass effect where the
bassline plays only one note, or is rooted around one
note. In trance, the bass often plays between bass drum
hits, and it really adds to the flow and groove of the
track. When a pedal bass effect is used, the bass
become a much more percussive instrument.

I guess I'm speaking up about this, because I just
finished a track called 'Cherry Beach', and there's no
bassline, because I couldn't really find the right
sound and didn't like what it did to the ambience of
the track. I've been told it's a good track, but some
of my friends have pointed out that the absence of that
bassline seriously diminishes the flow of the track.
Lesson learned... It's hard to make groovy trance drums
without groovy trance basslines.

toomas, have you tried multiple hihats, running
together? I was going to add an example of pattern with
tighter open hats that I know Paul van Vyk and Tiesto
have used, but it doesn't look right on the 4 step
grid, but try tightening things up instead of letting

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Message 12/19 01-Aug-00 @ 05:07 AM - RE: Help on how to make TRANCE beat

Jasper

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another effect to use is a celeste style thing for hi-hats. if it's got an lfo switch it off.. the effect tends to make 909 ohh sound squeezed without compressing them.

I don't know exactly what the celest is.. some kind of slowly modulated dephase.

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Message 13/19 01-Aug-00 @ 12:41 PM - RE: Help on how to make TRANCE beat

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once again i'd vote for timed delays on the hats & percussion parts to give tracks that flowing 'ripple'

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Message 14/19 02-Aug-00 @ 05:33 PM - RE: Help on how to make TRANCE beat

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one good technique is to sample a few bars of the track you like - a straight riff part.. loop it well in an editor making sure it starts absolutely smack bang on the first kik of the bar... then save the loop, impoert it into your sequencer to an audiio track, and loop it, then open a drum map, start by adding in the kiks, - use e'q to remove the bottom end and isolate the hats/top-end... copy the beats of the hats etc, pay attention to the dynamic's or loudness of each hit... um... yeah - so use the eq to isolate bands of frewquencies to isolate drumsounds more... go for the upper mid for snares and claps type sounds etc.. and just try like that to copy the beat, they are both running at the same time in sync, so get it like as good as you can.. fade out the loop, bring it back, mess about.. etc

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Message 15/19 02-Aug-00 @ 06:24 PM - RE: Help on how to make TRANCE beat

0/d

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hey jasper,you said something about timing an lfo to a beat(1/4s etc),how do you do this? you use an a3k? I haven't been able to figure it out on my a5k.

oh,and my trance beat tip is percussion,loads of percussusion that sits beneath the track,don't be afraid to use some really off the wall short snippets,it can give your track that little bit extra that makes it stand out from the rest.

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Message 16/19 03-Aug-00 @ 05:30 AM - RE: Help on how to make TRANCE beat

Jasper

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that tips a goodun, I use the same thing on a lot of stuff to fill out the sound without taking it over. on the a3k you can copy the sound and then hipass filter it, set the detune or dephaze to something and drop the volume right down.. playing it around the main sounds notes to give it a bit of depth.

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Message 17/19 03-Aug-00 @ 05:37 AM - RE: Help on how to make TRANCE beat

Jasper

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to get the lfo synced to midi.. erm I'll have to use the a3k way of doing things.. you've got a proper screen so it'll prob be different slightly.
press play then press the midi (f6) button until you see the program lfo screen.. set the sync to midi.
now setup a control matrix for the sample you want to affect, press edit then f6 until you get to the first slot (there are 6 for each sample) it'll be set to filter by default responding to control (74 I think).. turn the dial under the controler number until it reads program lfo. filter is now sync to external midi. go back to the program lfo screens (play/f6) for the screen that has the note on it to change how fast the lfo is.. helps if you have the seq playing to see the difference.. I hope this is clear enough.

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Message 18/19 03-Aug-00 @ 12:50 PM - RE: Help on how to make TRANCE beat

ggehiere

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Just a little anecdote:

I use a sampler for lots of extra hits, kicks and hats
to back up my shitty Mc-303. I sampled what I thought
were some kick ass hats off a record, and started
working away. I usually double up hats at some point in
the track, with two different patterns playing off each
other.

It turns out the hats from the record were exactly the
same ones on my 303 - not just the same sound, but the
same sample. They were ever so slightly out of pitch
with each other that I got a freaky flange effect! What
were the chances? (If it wasn't the same sample, it
wouldn't phase like

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Message 19/19 07-Aug-00 @ 05:01 PM - RE: Help on how to make TRANCE beat

0/d

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nice one japer,i think I have it now.

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