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Subject: raid - any point?

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Original Message 1/24 28-Nov-02 @ 10:58 PM - raid - any point?

bedwyr

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i'm thinking of getting an asus a7v333 (coz i got an asus a7v now, and it works) but the a7v333 comes in two versions - onbaoard raid or not.

shall i bother? any point?

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Message 2/24 29-Nov-02 @ 12:43 AM - RE: raid - any point?

psylichon

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for data security, not really unless you never
backup.

for speed, not really unless you're trying to mix
a major motion picture (which from what I've
heard ain't happening in Logic

) ATA133
drives are plenty enuff for what we do around
here.

psy

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Message 3/24 29-Nov-02 @ 12:54 AM - RE: raid - any point?

bedwyr

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how about an hour long documentary? :|

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Message 4/24 29-Nov-02 @ 12:56 AM - RE: raid - any point?

bedwyr

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thing is it's raid ata133 - that's why i'm a bit confused. i thought it was some scsi thing. call me stupid.

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Message 5/24 29-Nov-02 @ 01:08 AM - RE: raid - any point?

steef

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stupid.

I'm predictable, if nothing else.

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Message 6/24 29-Nov-02 @ 09:00 AM - RE: raid - any point?

psylichon

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SCSI was traditionally implemented in RAID arrays, but lately, mobo manufacturers have seen it as a cheap way to implement their IDE controllers (one IC is really all you need) to attract new power users. It's nice if you have some drives laying around that aren't really worth it for their size anymore. But I wouldn't buy a mobo simply for that feature. It's generally an afterthought.

psy

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Message 7/24 29-Nov-02 @ 09:58 AM - RE: raid - any point?

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yeah, i doubt it's worth it now - honestly i never use more than 8 tracks or so to produce any type of tune, it always amazes me when people say they are using 48 tracks... what the bloody hell for!!

Ok, in a band/rock studio recording real drums etc you might use 24 or 32 tracks... but 48?... or 64? jesus man... i seriously never understand that, and understand it even less with hard disk techniques..

I mean, 48 tracks would be some epic album like from Queen or Trevor Horn mega-production or something from the old days... I just cannot see how anyone can use that many tracks, especialy for dance music where mostly it's midi based... Ok, some of my mates who do alot of RnB tunes or commercial pop/rnb crossover use up to 24 tracks for guitars, vocals, BV's etc but that's about it, and a good cheap athlon will do that no worries.

___________________________________

I had an idea for a script once. It's basically Jaws except when the guys in the boat are going after Jaws, they look around and there's an even bigger Jaws. The guys have to team up with Jaws to get Bigger Jaws.... I call it... Big Jaws!!!

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Message 8/24 29-Nov-02 @ 10:19 AM - RE: raid - any point?

bedwyr

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ok. you just saved me 20 squids then. i do use up to about 16 - 20 tracks sometimes, but yeah, for the pop stuff with guitars and bvs and shite, but there's never 20 going at the same time.

ok how about saving me another 20?

pc2100 or pc2700 ddr?

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Message 9/24 29-Nov-02 @ 12:56 PM Edit: 29-Nov-02 | 12:59 PM - RE: raid - any point?

Steve Roughley

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Well, sorry to possibly cost you more money here, bedwyr, but using the onboard RAID connectors as a couple of extra 133-IDE busses, works really well in DAW systems. I have onboard RAID, which I use for extra IDE HDDs, and not for RAID. It allows me to use a separate IDE channel for each drive in my system, which means maximum IDE bandwidth all the time, which means more constant data throughput, which means more speed. If you have more than two drives (CD, HDD, CDR, etc) then you could really take advantage of the boost in performance gained from not sharing IDE busses.

However, I do not know the architecture of the a7v333, so have a look at the diagrams and check if the RAID controller has an individual connection to the main CPU bus, this is usually the South Bridge controller, that is separate from the primary IDE controller. If so, then �20 will get you a lot more power. If not, the RAID and IDE bus will most likely share the same connection and will not really boost your performance that much.

Regards.

Steve.

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Message 10/24 29-Nov-02 @ 01:39 PM - RE: raid - any point?

Stvy

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Hi,

Bedwyr - if your going for a 333FSB atlhon then definitely go for the PC2700. Also bear in mind if you upgrade in the future your PC2700 will be more sutiable to keep hold of.

On the subject of IDE rAID Steve Roughley's spot on. One thing to note if you do use IDE RAID in a RAID situation with two drives and one mirrored then in the event of some corrupt data being sent almost all IDE RAID controllers will send the same corrupt data to your 1 st hard drive and then to the 2nd supposedly backup drive as well! giving you no benefit!

If your going raid then go SCSI everytime. But thats a serious outlay and I think you just lost that �20 and probably another �1000 as well!!!

Cheers

stvy

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Message 11/24 29-Nov-02 @ 03:24 PM - RE: raid - any point?

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yup - use the 2700 and you need to set the bios for it - I'm right in the middle of preparing the second article 'cheap athlon build - boot to bios' for the pc-build article, there's just a couple of settings to tweak in the bios.

___________________________________

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Message 12/24 29-Nov-02 @ 10:51 PM Edit: 29-Nov-02 | 10:55 PM - RE: raid - any point?

bedwyr

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thanks again. i'll look into what steve said though coz it's looking like i'll need every bit of speed i can get hold of.

... damn i just been reading the spec and it seems that the a7v333 has a 266/200 FSB and has only been tested with pc2700 sticks up to 256mb from a handfull of manufacturers. i'm gonna look for another board. am i?

oh, i don't get it. it's on the amd recommended mobo list for the xp 2700+ 333 FSB.

aaaarrrghhh!

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Message 13/24 30-Nov-02 @ 01:31 AM Edit: 30-Nov-02 | 01:44 AM - RE: raid - any point?

Steve Roughley

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Bedwyr, if you want a rock-solid board, go for ABit. I have set up several PCs for friends etc., and the ABit motherboards have been absolutely fantastic. I haven't had to tweak, or alter them once after they have been configured. Trust me! They are a very safe bet. As for Asus, the boards have a good name, but personally I feel that they are over-rated and extremely over-priced for what you get. Generally. they are stable boards, but they aren't very fancy. Volvo's of the mobo world if you like. Also, check out the Gigabyte mobo's. I am running one myself, and apart from the soft-synth problem that I am having (which may not even be due to the motherboard), it is as stable as a gigantic bolder on flat ground. And I have pushed this set up till I get app crashes, and the Gigabyte doesn't even heat up.

Oh, and another tip, try to steer clear of Via if possible. It's no real biggy, but if you can get an AMD North Bridge chipset, they are at the higher end of chipset design and there have been less problems with them. They perform as well as the Intel-I chipsets, and aren't developed on work-arounds like the Via's. (Via have had a lot of problems with their chipsets and instead of fixing the problems, their general approach seems to be to develop a quick fix to the problem. I don't trust them).

Regards.

Steve.

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Message 14/24 30-Nov-02 @ 11:54 AM - RE: raid - any point?

bedwyr

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hmm, all the amd recommended mobos for their faster processors are via though, and i know there was shit in the past, but i never had any trouble with mine. anyhow, i'm still looking around.

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Message 15/24 02-Dec-02 @ 01:06 PM - RE: raid - any point?

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Wait a couple of weeks for the new nForce2 boards - they're very fast, and shouldn't really be too expensive. Asus have one already, A7N8X or something. Quite a bit faster than anything (for AMD) on the market at the moment.

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Message 16/24 02-Dec-02 @ 01:13 PM - RE: raid - any point?

bedwyr

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yeah, i was looking at that one. can't really wait 2 weeks though. ta.

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Message 17/24 02-Dec-02 @ 06:19 PM - RE: raid - any point?

99devils

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Be careful with bleeding edge chipsets. Stability and compatibility are the keys for audio. Let someone else be the guinea pig

-Craig

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Message 18/24 03-Dec-02 @ 06:34 AM - RE: raid - any point?

psylichon

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[nod in craig's general direction]

I've said this before. You already got my mobo recommendation (ECS K7S5A), with 1600 Athlon for $100. you could spend twice as much on a motherboard if you want, but I'd take the proven reliability of my mobo over a 2% increase in memory performance. Besides, a united north and south bridge in one SiS 735 ic means the fastest booter on the market. It's been AROUND. A LONG time for a MB design. But BIOS updates keep it fresh.

I know you probably already ordered your shit, but for those who haven't...

psy

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Message 19/24 03-Dec-02 @ 09:26 AM Edit: 03-Dec-02 | 09:30 AM - RE: raid - any point?

bedwyr

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i haven't ordered nothing! i don't do ordering, darling

i got 'til monday to make my mind up.

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Message 20/24 03-Dec-02 @ 09:39 AM - RE: raid - any point?

psylichon

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till monday, eh? you dealin' with the mafia or something?

:}

psy

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Message 21/24 03-Dec-02 @ 09:48 AM - RE: raid - any point?

bedwyr

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yes, also known as "the bank"

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Message 22/24 11-Dec-02 @ 04:15 PM - RE: raid - any point?

BJT

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I thought you could use Raid to speed up reading, the hard drive that finds the data first returns it, thus reducing latency due to time needed to move the head.

Raid0 or Raid1 or something from memory.

But yeah, prolly not worth the money.

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Message 23/24 28-Dec-02 @ 06:11 PM - RE: raid - any point?

Anex

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Yeah, RAID 0 writes to two or more disks as tho they were one, hence you can read back data at (in theory, although with IDE, not in practice) twice the speed. It is also very prone to tripping up randomly and wiping ALL your data.
RAID 1 mirrors your data accross to an identical setup so again, in theory, you have a complete back up of data so if lot falls over it switches seemlessly to the other, tho it doesn't always work this way. SCSI yes, IDE no basically

It's fun to play with for five minutes, benchmarking etc. then when you have to use it and it trips up a few times you get really f0rked off at it and give up. Best left to real computers like wot Sun make

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Message 24/24 28-Dec-02 @ 06:15 PM - RE: raid - any point?

Anex

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Oh yeah, and another vote for Abit, all my machines run Abit boards, been using them for years. All rock solid, fast and behave exactly as they should do.

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