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Subject: responsibility

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Original Message 1/42 23-Feb-03 @ 06:30 PM - responsibility

cheddar

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So the largest global rallies in our history are doing nothing to affect events, what's left, and would it be called terrorism?

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Message 2/42 23-Feb-03 @ 06:31 PM - RE: responsibility

cheddar

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So our countries act against our will yet nations are to blame

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Message 3/42 23-Feb-03 @ 06:54 PM - RE: responsibility

psylichon

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so what time does this revolution start, cheddar? do you have any literature I could browse?

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Message 4/42 23-Feb-03 @ 07:24 PM - RE: responsibility

cheddar

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cigar to that man

'waiver' I do not propose violence ever, it tips the balance toward mobs and my clothes always clash in crowds

logic loops but invention circumvents. Any more ideas?

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Message 5/42 23-Feb-03 @ 10:10 PM - RE: responsibility

man called clay

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we have to understand saddam is a violent man and that those who elevated him to his position....ie the bush family....are equally known as such.
unfortunately it is those small guys in the middle...the bottom the pawns...the footsoldiers and children which get crunched with real blood.
best we remain as calm in our opposition as possible....and if the waves sweep us ALL towards the brink....of insanity....let us hope there is a god which is wise and kind and a universal order which might come and provide a better way.
if we are instruments of that...then so be it.

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Message 6/42 24-Feb-03 @ 04:29 AM - RE: responsibility

influx

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argh. you just had to, eh?

what the hell do they think is going to happen if they just keep on keepin on, utterly ignoring the CLEARLY delineated wishes of the majority?

today...downtown Brea, Ca...SUBURBIA epitomized:

On one corner...the "leftists" or "commies" with their signs and placards. NO WAR, NO OLIGARCHY! NO MURDER!

across the street?

"Support our troops"

OUR TROOPS?!?!?!?! THEYRE NOTHING BUT (mindless?) PAWNS who have been trained to obey every last command

BUT they are also the defenders of our nation. OF COURSE we support them in just situations. THIS is not JUST.

so these chumps are out there with their "rebuttal" which is NOT a rebuttal. I'd be willing to bet that if you asked most leftists who they would want defending them in a time of need, they would emphatically answer "The US Armed Forces" because fact of the matter is we are the best, strongest, and safest. BUT DAMMIT ITS NOT A QUESTION OF SUPPORTING TROOPS!

This is so clearly deceitful and underhanded..the whole thing...I am so utterly disgusted it makes me shake

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Message 7/42 24-Feb-03 @ 06:54 AM - RE: responsibility

man called clay

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influx...then shake buddy.
my father died at war for such decrepid reasoning.
it's always THE LIE.
left or unleft has little to do with it...really..anymore.
it's just sheer greed backed by power...and like the guy says in the john sayles movie...hey joe...it's life....watcha gon do?
i am....my children are...we all are> simply waiting in the wings to be the next victims of the scourge which is the huns which govern.
have faith though....
hang strong....stay calm....and seriously...be around when it's needed.

a little shaking is always a good reminder though.....
just what fear is.

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Message 8/42 24-Feb-03 @ 09:36 AM - RE: responsibility

psylichon

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I'd laugh if it wasn't so incredibly not not not not funny.

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Message 9/42 24-Feb-03 @ 07:36 PM Edit: 24-Feb-03 | 07:39 PM - RE: responsibility

Steve Roughley

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I find it very amusing Psy

I have a name for the reason that things like this are funny. It's the 'Irony of Absurdity'. It is just sooooo damned not funny that it is in fact just absurd and so it ends up coming full circle and becomes the funniest thing ever.

I seem to have had this attitude all of my life. Though, it may not be the best attitude ever, as it has caused me to end up doing things that I really shouldn't. In fact, it has ended up getting me beaten up on many occasions and at best it makes me a regular asshole

Steve.

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Message 10/42 24-Feb-03 @ 07:52 PM - RE: responsibility

errata

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"i am....my children are...we all are> simply waiting in the wings to be the next victims of the scourge which is the huns which govern."

This may well be the attitude which is being addressed in the original post! The Masses have no teeth!!! We peacefully organize and gather publicly (when they give us permission) and say what we have to say to one another! Preaching to the choir FEELS good, it satisfies our indignation but it accomplishes nothing but the further enlargement of the choir's EGO!

"Yeah! Right on! Hallalujah, brotha! Speak the word!"

Meanwhile the bastards keep kicking the crap out of the pricks and we pay/shed blood/loose family for it! The loss of all of these lives is an awful proposition, but even greater damage is done by setting the precedent of greed and violence as THE mode of operation. And I like to think that's what the protests are about.

Unfortunately Bullies rarely listen to the reasoned appeals of gentle people... and that IS why there are terrorists... not that I support such "reactionary" behaviour!

e

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Message 11/42 24-Feb-03 @ 08:11 PM Edit: 24-Feb-03 | 08:12 PM - RE: responsibility

Steve Roughley

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If anyone really wanted to change anything, then why don't they try and get into power??? Climbing the Political ladder is going to be more effective than blowing stuff up, whinging and letting captive animals out. Isn't it?!?

The point being that we (the population) can't bitch about the leaders and how things are run, because we can't be arsed to do it! Can we?!? This poses the question: If someone who had the ideals that we all preach and protest for did finally get off their arses and climb the ladder, would they get anywhere anyway? No! Because we would be too scared to vote them in as our leader.

We are humans

We are the creaters of comedy

Steve.

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Message 12/42 24-Feb-03 @ 08:30 PM - RE: responsibility

psylichon

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It's not so simple, Steve, with a two-party system. Case in point ----> Ralph Nader.

We will never have a society where the philosophers rule because great thinkers don't fall into party lines.

Correct me if i'm wrong.

psy

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Message 13/42 24-Feb-03 @ 09:10 PM - RE: responsibility

Steve Roughley

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Well... I don't know much about Nader accept that he made consumer corporations responsible for their products. But what you're saying was kinda my point Psy. If anyone Philosophical did ever try to run for leadership, they wouldn't get anywhere because 1) philosophically minded people would be mentally numbed by the people that they would have to face in any political system, and 2) the greater population wouldn't vote them in anyway.

At the end of the day, any system that we come up with will be a human system. There's nowt we can do about that.

Steve.

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Message 14/42 24-Feb-03 @ 09:34 PM - RE: responsibility

BJT

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Where would you get the money to run for a US senate?

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Message 15/42 24-Feb-03 @ 10:33 PM - RE: responsibility

Steve Roughley

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Oil and Tobacco companies, it would seem, jump on any possible candidate and offer stupid money (llok at the list of sponsors for each Presidential candidate). I bet these companies own half of US congress. Hence the War on Oil... cough cough... sorry... Terrorism.

Steve.

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Message 16/42 25-Feb-03 @ 03:15 AM - RE: responsibility

influx

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two party system. uncrackable. heart of the problem

although Ive long thought that to get that far..to the upper echelons of leadership...requires many, many "favors"

and when you DO get there, those favors need to be payed back, so youre instantly in someone (or many someones) pocket.

you know...it really is futile. or at least it seems that way

the "progress" that has been made in governmental balances...seem mostly just concessions to ease the gnashing teeth of the radicals

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Message 17/42 25-Feb-03 @ 05:22 AM - RE: responsibility

man called clay

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govern thine own self as best possible.
everything begins with the microcosm.

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Message 18/42 25-Feb-03 @ 05:59 AM - RE: responsibility

influx

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sorry man but thats bullshit.

I try hard, every day, to do whats "right" (it aint that hard to tell)

and I get stepped on fairly regularly, and everyone around me is just goin in full "I gots ta get mines" mode

and the people in power? shit. do this do that dont do this dont do that...

its gettin worse and worse

montana here I come

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Message 19/42 25-Feb-03 @ 06:56 AM - RE: responsibility

psylichon

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but that's his point, influx. If the world was made of people like you [stifling a giggle], then things would be cooler, no?

the part reflects the whole reflects the part reflects the whole reflects the....

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Message 20/42 25-Feb-03 @ 08:32 AM - RE: responsibility

influx

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ha. people like me.

so then the point is dont care.

ok. I dont care anymore

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Message 21/42 25-Feb-03 @ 08:44 AM Edit: 25-Feb-03 | 08:46 AM - RE: responsibility

psylichon

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[laff] no man, the point is care.

"I try hard, every day, to do whats "right" (it aint that hard to tell) "

Right on. That's all you can do. You can't control what anyone else thinks or does. But instead of seeing despair in that, see how liberating it is because now you only have to make yourself a righteous and just human being. Others will follow.

multiply this x 6 billion or so. Just keep doing what you do and it'll be ok, mon.

psy

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Message 22/42 25-Feb-03 @ 08:45 AM - RE: responsibility

psylichon

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oh wait. just read the first post again. perhaps I'm being too passive?

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Message 23/42 25-Feb-03 @ 06:57 PM - RE: responsibility

influx

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exactly. altho you cant beat people into doing "right"

thing is...all that crap about "just do what youre doing and feel elevated" is just SHIT because you actually get F-ED when you are always doing whats right.

because no one else is. so you get screwed over regularly.

blah

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Message 24/42 25-Feb-03 @ 08:08 PM - RE: responsibility

psylichon

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you're getting caught in that vicious cycle of despair dood.

what is "getting screwed over" really, knowing how big the universe is?

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Message 25/42 26-Feb-03 @ 12:48 AM - RE: responsibility

influx

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heh.

in all reality I am one lucky son of a bitch. no doubt about it

its just hard to be so aware of how WRONG the current state of affairs is, and how WRONG and STUPID most people are.

and they strut around all cocky like theyre the ones who've got it straight

makes me wanna break out the old M16

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Message 26/42 26-Feb-03 @ 12:50 AM - RE: responsibility

Mindspawn

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"Right" is oft a personal thing - not to be confused with popular opinion.... and you can beat people into doing "right" if that's you want to do. It happens all the time. Assuming your (or anyone's) "rightness" is the "one true way" is where people start rubbing each other the wrong way.

As for "what's left, and would it be called terrorism?" Anything that doesn't sit well with the powers that be might be called terrorism. Regardless of people's opinions, terrorism is usually defined by the group(s) that are being subjected to it. Sometimes "terrorism" is the only avenue left when the "powers that be" refuse to cooperate/compromise. Of course the "terrorists" will call themselves revolutionaries, holy warriors, and righteous agents of truth... Do the math.

What's left? Wisdom...?

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Message 27/42 26-Feb-03 @ 01:37 AM - RE: responsibility

errata

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sorry, by virtue of the discussion there will be no wisdom here!

;0

e

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Message 28/42 26-Feb-03 @ 04:46 AM Edit: 26-Feb-03 | 04:47 AM - RE: responsibility

nobody

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I'm resposible for this photo of a fellow caucasian devil at a Nation of Islam event on Sunday.

Humans suck.

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Message 29/42 26-Feb-03 @ 05:43 AM - RE: responsibility

influx

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ha. do the brothers trip out on a shaved head white boy in their midst?

Im assuming the guy wasnt a nazi type being confrontational but just happens to have a shaved head etc?

the guy on the left looks like he's trippin on 'im a bit?

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Message 30/42 26-Feb-03 @ 09:17 AM - RE: responsibility

psylichon

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marquee huh? neato... time for me to overuse that one!

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Message 31/42 27-Feb-03 @ 01:57 AM - RE: responsibility

nobody

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Yeah, he was just there, this white guy... I'm not sure what they were talking about, I just saw the chance to get a photo of an official for the event, this white guy dressed in shiny dignitary-style garb, and some other.. Took advantage of the opportunity. I shot 2 rolls but this photo is the only one I really end up liking. Amazingly flexible, this particular british film..

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Message 32/42 27-Feb-03 @ 04:56 AM - RE: responsibility

man called clay

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actually...there's another light-skinned person sitting right in front of him and the guard....in a hat.
i've met a white follower of islam before and two mexicans.

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Message 33/42 27-Feb-03 @ 08:08 AM - RE: responsibility

influx

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you know whats funny...that could be our own Mindspawn if he just had a little Krishna-tail

So Nobody...what was this NoI meeting like, man? I mean...common belief is that they are racist separatists...but no group "they" is "all" ANYTHING, I've learned

perhaps I should go some day.

Would have liked to have met some Panthers way back when, too

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Message 34/42 27-Feb-03 @ 01:57 PM - RE: responsibility

nobody

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The light-skinned guy in front is still negro. There were a few other white people there - one with a LONG pony tail (kinda Willie Nelson looking) and um.. A half-puerto rican guy who was sort of mistaken for white, asked to come up and read something, and then said "Well, actually I'm half puerto rican" and commenced reading..

4, or 5, if you count mr. half-puerto rican.

I thought the event was going to be Louis Farrakhan speaking against the war - turns out that was to be telecast from Chicago. Decided to go in anyway, since I'd gone so far as bringing a couple cameras, my PRESS badge etc.

There was indeed some of the usual "keeping the black man down" propaganda spouted by one guy, one woman who spoke said she was glad to see white faces, puerto rican faces, korean faces (I missed those) amidst all the black faces. Someone said something about not being rascist. I'm not. Most of them seemed to like having the PRESS there - of course they didn't realize it's a purchaszed PRESS badge, and I wasn't on assignment except for myself.. ah.

OK so I'll upload a picture of the puerto rican guy speaking...

Panthers would have been cool to meet, I agree.

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Message 35/42 27-Feb-03 @ 02:01 PM - RE: responsibility

nobody

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[image file]

Here...

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Message 36/42 27-Feb-03 @ 02:27 PM - RE: responsibility

man called clay

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okay....so not all humans totally suck all the time....
even though it seems that way sometimes.

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Message 37/42 27-Feb-03 @ 10:37 PM - RE: responsibility

influx

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well shit...Im all for ANYONE with true motives who wants nothing more than change for the better, and fair treatment for all.

heh. hippy

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Message 38/42 28-Feb-03 @ 02:24 AM - RE: responsibility

rhyze

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Turn off your televisions, turn on your leaders.

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Message 39/42 28-Feb-03 @ 04:52 AM - RE: responsibility

psylichon

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"Turn off your televisions, turn on your leaders."

insert your own Monica Lewinsky joke here.

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Message 40/42 01-Mar-03 @ 10:53 PM - RE: responsibility

Mindspawn

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Naw Influx, couldn't be me... as you say no "krishna-tail", not enough "hardware" dangling from the ears, and what a horribly unfashionable jacket... looks like the latest in crossing guard wares... it's all about the outfits, you know...=)

peace

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Message 41/42 03-Mar-03 @ 03:35 AM - RE: responsibility

man called clay

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unfashionable yes.....perhaps>
but i bet he crosses.

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Message 42/42 03-Mar-03 @ 06:17 AM - RE: responsibility

Teresa Dinshu

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Women, separated still from men...mmmkay.

Islam is too repressing to women. The religion is okay except for the koran motivated killings, but it has to change for women's benefit.

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