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Subject: "classic" synths? will new ones...


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Original Message 1/25             03-Dec-03  @  10:23 PM   -   ever be considered?

Influx

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Just thinkin about this with my recent exposure to some old skool analog

synths like the xpander, OB series, Matrix, Jupiter6/8, MiniMoog, Prophet5, etc...

back 'then" they had character, defining "voices"...

wondering about the current crop...just a ton of VAs mostly, that sometimes dont sound all that distinctive...

do you think in 10-20 years any of these new synths will "matter"?



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Message 2/25             04-Dec-03  @  10:31 AM     Edit: 04-Dec-03  |  10:32 AM   -   RE:

steve

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I think stuff like the xt and fs1r will always have a cult following, but I can't see anything that'll be revered in the same way joops and prophets are nowadays either meself. Most VA's will prolly be looked upon as cheap sources of 'classic' mid to late 90's sounds in the same way that DX and TX's are looked upon now.

I wonder if 15 years from now people'll be arguing on the internet whether the VA's with shittier internal resolution and convertors have more 'character'?



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Message 3/25             04-Dec-03  @  02:26 PM   -   RE:

milan

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i'd bet on it  



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Message 4/25             04-Dec-03  @  03:19 PM   -   RE:

craig

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I think without a doubt that the Nord Lead will have its place in history alongside the Juno and Minimoog.

my 2 cents.

-Craig



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Message 5/25             04-Dec-03  @  04:58 PM   -   RE:

Influx

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damn, thats it? no one else?

I think that says something...things being just cranked out...

but...maybe if I had asked this in 1985 the responses would have been the same?

"nah, the jupiter8 is too buggy...no one will remember it"?



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Message 6/25             04-Dec-03  @  05:31 PM   -   RE:

Maarten

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Personally I think the new VA's will try to get even more of that warmth off of the sound.. once they can reach that the 'oldie's' will no longer matter much more than now. I mean.. take just about any VA next to a roland (old)SH or system series, Korg's (old)MS series, Oberheims etc etc.. you still hear that difference. Most of the current crop of VA's will indeed stand in their shadows still.



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Message 7/25             04-Dec-03  @  06:24 PM     Edit: 04-Dec-03  |  06:27 PM   -   RE:

milan

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quote
do you think in 10-20 years any of these new synths will "matter"?


no, i think they'll be superceeded by newer even better va's. like erm... access virus X, waldorf Q+++, and novation Supernova10?

only exciting thing i can think of right now is, if people like xoxos and the synthmaker crew manage to find a way to make all the weird synthesis/effect technologies as usable and accessible to the average user as an average va is, or like the aforementioned microwave xt and fs1r. then i'd be all about those types of synthesis instead of just dipping my toes in the water now and then  



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Message 8/25             04-Dec-03  @  06:25 PM   -   RE:

milan

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yo, whats these "quote" thingies for? they dont really do anything do they?



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Message 9/25             04-Dec-03  @  07:31 PM   -   RE:

craig

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I disagree. Personally, I don't think of VAs as emulations of analog but simply as synths in their own right. I don't care what kind of circuit, or software program is making the sound...

I say the Nord Lead will be a classic 20 years from now because it has a soul, like the classic instruments do. This is less apparent to Nord Rack users, but when you grab a Nord Lead keyboard and play it, you feel it. The action of the board, the way the pitchstick and modwheel feel under your hands, how the synth's sound reacts to the dynamics of playing and programming...

For me as a guitar player, it's like what I feel when I pick up an old Strat - it's got that something that makes you connect with the instrument and the music you make on it.

The Virus, on the other hand, is a fantastic sounding tool, and it's got all the features you'd want, but it doesn't quite have the moxy.

People pick the classics in an irrational way in general.. Does a '58 Strat stay in tune when I dive bomb the trem? Does a mini go out of tune when you drive to the gig in the cold? Sure, but nobody cares because they have that something.



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Message 10/25             04-Dec-03  @  08:06 PM   -   RE:

milan

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yeah the nord, but virus a got bettered by b then by c, and surely will get bettered by virus d... do you c? ;)



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Message 11/25             04-Dec-03  @  09:02 PM   -   RE:

craig

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I know what you're talking about, but there's a good example for my point. Lots of people sold off their As for Bs or Cs. Hell, once prices come into line I might go for a b or c spec KB myself.. But people don't rush out to trade in their Nords for the more powerful model. Besides the NL3 is totally different than the NL1/2.

You also can't deny the huge amount of artists who bought Nords early and still use them.

-Craig



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Message 12/25             05-Dec-03  @  01:14 AM   -   RE:

Optofonik - AKA, mick, rhyze, etc.

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I don't think any of the current VA synths will matter in twenty years. Niether will the "classics". The problem is that synths were married to keyboards early on in their commercial career and that has limited their potential and, in about twenty years or so, I believe their utility as such will be over. Alternate controllers which are only now coming into their own in certain very small circles will change the entire way synths are percieved and used. Once these controllers are widely accepted and commercially available I think everything will change, the very concept of what sound synthesis is will be redefined, and "classic" synths will be mentioned only in museum conversation. Of course, I could be full of shit.



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Message 13/25             06-Dec-03  @  01:48 AM   -   RE:

psylichon

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I agree. What we are fighting for now is the perfectly adaptable, universal, best "control surface" for whatever you do. Hip-Hoppers love the MPC, loopers love Acid, trancers love VA's, etc. Sound engines for these interfaces will only get better with time. The sound is a completely different thing, now removed from the control surface/ MIDI controller entirely with software. I will always consider my Nova a classic in that it encapsulates a certain vibe at a certain time for me. I love its simplistic interface and just the way it "feels".... but of course they will always add more bells and whistles that will make it technically "better" and if they don't change the basic oscillator and filter engine, it will still sound like my sweet nova, only with more mods. But I still appreciate the nova (the actual surface and idea of a Nova) for what it is. A beautiful marriage of interface and fidelity.

btw, I consider the Nova's filters and oscs to be very unique... disctincly liquid... modeled after the OSCar if I'm not mistaken. Bubbles like no other...



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Message 14/25             06-Dec-03  @  10:10 AM   -   RE:

panama

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I think the VA's of today will only be remembered for how innovative they are. believe it or
not the JP-8000 might be the only synth to take the cake... that supersaw sound literally
exploded the electronic music market everywhere. nothing VA wise has come to what it
has done. the nord though would probably be first in the graduating class b/c it was the
first to be created. but the jp-8k was sumtin that changed the sound of electronic music.

analog will always be what it is b/c the people who created it wanted a musical instrument
made for musicians...that mindset made 1980's music. Then when used differently, like
electronic music in the 1990's, people used synthesizers for the wrong reasons... Maybe
in twenty years some scene of gearists will use VA's for not electronic music but for
something else...



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Message 15/25             06-Dec-03  @  10:10 AM   -   RE:

influx

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techonpolka



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Message 16/25             06-Dec-03  @  10:11 AM   -   RE:

shit

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techNOpolka



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Message 17/25             06-Dec-03  @  10:30 AM   -   RE:

milan

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nooooo nonono...only waldorf micro Q will be remembered because it is one of the most capable synths ever created by man or woman, yet incredibly affordable!

how can you people be so subjective about it all?

anyway... i think you guys are in a way proving that they wont be remembred, except by the people who owned them. "what u say?"



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Message 18/25             07-Dec-03  @  05:04 PM   -   RE:

Defector Z

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I think regardless of the interface (be it a rack mount or attached to keys), a synth will be remembered for it's sound and programmability. The Prophecy will be desirable for years to come, I think the XT falls into that category, and as mentioned before, the Supersaw function of the JP-8k will keep that synth in everyones mind (thanks to Broken Silence for sending the patch to open my eyes to that sound). The AN1X could be a classic. There will always be a market. Does a synth need to be for "everyone" to be a classic? I don't think so. The mini may be a classic, but it certainly isn't for everyone (I can't IMAGINE trying to haul my kid around in that thing). I think a synth needs to be sufficiently unique to reach "classic" status. I think there are a few out there.

I think a good gauge of classis is which used synths you guys recommend.



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Message 19/25             08-Dec-03  @  11:41 AM   -   RE:

dubmunkey

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i think it will be xt, fs1r etc like people said....

cant imagine the voyager taking on the status of a minimoog......

software is too copyable....but things like atmosphere are pushing the envelope...

i personally think the scene will slightly mutate to incorporate samplers and stuff..still hear loads of people bang on about the merits of the old akai 9xx series, the sp range, the old mpcs and the asr-1's. plus the akai s5k/6k looks like the last really decent hardware sampler....

greg



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Message 20/25             08-Dec-03  @  09:24 PM   -   RE:

Tom

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A good question. But I dont think its possible to predict what will become classic and what will not.

A better question yet is whether these digital synths will survive another 20-30 years!

Tom



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Message 21/25             09-Dec-03  @  03:08 AM   -   RE:

Broken Silence

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JP8000 will definatley be a classic because of the unique supersaw. I do not think the XT will be one since waldorf will release the microwave WXT or whatever soon which will just have more waves and better control...I think synths that cannot be topped (in a good way or bad way) are going to be the classic synths. Sure, the JP is one big piece of shit but it has a unique "thing" to it being the super saw (and shit i've never seen any other synth with something that comes close to the "feedback osc").



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Message 22/25             09-Dec-03  @  03:43 AM     Edit: 09-Dec-03  |  03:44 AM   -   RE:

Optofonik - AKA, mick, rhyze, etc.

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Something that could make VA synths interesting in twenty years might be hacking. Since they are based around upgradable software it doesn't seem outside the realm of possibility that some enterprising lass or lad will hack the OS of one or more of them. The thing that has been perceived by purists as their weakness when compared to "classics" - a software based architecture - may very well be their saving grace in the future. The ability to mutate a particualr VA into something greater than the sum of it's parts (or code, as the case may be) could insure its continued success even after the manufacturer has gone belly up (you don't really think all these companies making VAs today will be around in twenty years, do you?). The brilliant thing could end up being that, unlike electronic parts used in vintage synths, there is no shortage of code that can be written and used in VA synths. Their longevity may end up being based upon their ability to be hacked and their inherent mutability. The VA synth whose architecture can be mutated to the extreme will be percieved as a "classic" but for a very different reason than a Sequential or an Arp is percieved as such.



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Message 23/25             09-Dec-03  @  10:08 AM   -   RE:

milan

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now THATS an interesting opinion. ta rhyze



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Message 24/25             09-Dec-03  @  01:19 PM   -   RE:

k

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yeah - the JP and Virus for sure would be two. Prolly the Trinity's will be like the new 'classic' 1080



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Message 25/25             11-Jan-04  @  05:48 PM   -   RE:

Pongoid

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personally, I don't think many of the emulatios will be remembered as well as the newer hybrid analogs, like the MW1, the Xbase, or the Evolver. In fact, I think the Evolver is going to be quite well known in the next five years. I finally broke down and got one, and it smokes. Some of the characteristic digital synths might be remembered, like the XT, the Wavestation A/D, the fs1r. The JP8000/8080 most likely will never receive the recognition that the older Jupiters did, even with ONE (count it, a whole 1!!!) new waveform. Maybe some of the real serious pro workhorses, like the k2500 will keep their place in the history book, too.

$.02


Ape



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