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Subject: recording guitar

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Original Message 1/16 10-Mar-06 @ 10:28 PM - recording guitar

urbicide

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hey psy, what would get the better result:

recording heavily distorted electric guitar with a sm57 ---> m610

or

AKG C414 ---> 610

or both?

any suggestions?

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Message 2/16 13-Mar-06 @ 08:38 PM - RE: recording guitar

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try 'em both, on different cones what you got to loose? - mid you ou could cose mic with the SM and cab mic with the 414

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I had an idea for a script once. It's basically Jaws except when the guys in the boat are going after Jaws, they look around and there's an even bigger Jaws. The guys have to team up with Jaws to get Bigger Jaws.... I call it... Big Jaws!!!

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Message 3/16 13-Mar-06 @ 09:35 PM - RE: recording guitar

psylichon

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I often record an amp with a 57 up on the grill and a LD condenser or ribbon about a foot back. You need to mess with some delay time on the closer mic until you get the phase relationship you want, but really either of those mics will work for you. Obviously, the 414 will be a bit brighter, but perhaps less "mean". I would use both and blend to taste.

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Message 4/16 14-Mar-06 @ 04:10 PM - RE: recording guitar

urbicide

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I've got another question... In this setup... sm57 close up, condenser in the back... How loud do you normally record against the sm57/condenser?

I've always wondered... b/c I usually get quite a bit of distortion when turning the amp up with a condenser around. I have to drop a -30db on it. Whats the ideal level? Or what have you done?

I've found that the electric guitar is the hardest thing to record. Especially on a fairly low budget. The tone is weak and I want to optimize my setup, ie: Mic positions, levels, and the amount of processing. any quick info would be great.

setup: 7-string electric, into a tube DI-box -> guitar pedals -> amp

record: sm57 -> 610 -> line in on digi 001

thanks.

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Message 5/16 14-Mar-06 @ 08:27 PM - RE: recording guitar

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tube di box.. what's that for then?... you should be able to get a real hot cab level and not overload the close mic dynamic

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Message 6/16 14-Mar-06 @ 10:48 PM - RE: recording guitar

urbicide

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I'm just interested in what volume electric guitar should be recorded at; or if it even matters. hmmm.

the DI box gives the distortion a better sound... a slight warm & crunchy sound. I use it as a aesthetic to my sound.

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Message 7/16 14-Mar-06 @ 11:43 PM - RE: recording guitar

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y'know what'd be cool, take the pc down to me mates studio and rak up a marshall rig and do a video on mic-ing it with accompanying audio takes @ 44.1 wav, He's got loads guitars too

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Message 8/16 15-Mar-06 @ 07:37 PM - RE: recording guitar

milan

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that'd certainly be cool!

esp. if you could show the effect of placement & distance & phase relation of different mics, i'm sure there'd be many guitarists interested in that!

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Message 9/16 17-Mar-06 @ 12:57 AM - RE: recording guitar

urbicide

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well, I spent a day recording the guitar. Turns out that phase issues were the biggest problems during recording. Whenever I mono mixed the track, I would get a echo/chorus type sound. It took a while to figure it out but it still was a problem. Their must be a relationship between microphones and mic placement.

I'm too critical of my sound, but I couldnt get the growl or low-mid I wanted... only with eq. The extra mic worsened my results... though after many hours I got a fairly decent result.

Not very professional but I still was able to get a nice sound out of my sm57... not so great results with the c414.

I've always avoided working with electric guitar b/c its hard to record and get that sound thats rich and warm, yet soft and hard. What-a-backwards way of saying something... but still. that sound. in my room!

Anyhow, my sound was improved by multiple guitar pedals. I had 5 distortion pedals until I got the sound I wanted. Definitley helps to have a lot of pedals and know how they interact. The big challenge comes when you want to record the guitar amp, the way it sounds.

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Message 10/16 17-Mar-06 @ 05:13 AM - RE: recording guitar

psylichon

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Nothing unprofessional about a 57... that's what's used 90% of the time innit.

Are you sure the amp sound was as warm as you wanted it to begin with? Because a 57 through a 610 should yeild plenty of second order harmonics... perhaps even more than the source, due to the pre. How hard were you driving the course gain knob and at what level was the big knob? More of the former will give you more tube overdrive. 2k impedance will also sound a bit more boom/hiss-smiley sweeter-ish, and 500 impedance will be midrangier growlier, if ya know what I mean.

Agreed on the 414... best idea to ditch it. Shoulda said it could be cool as a room mic though... if your room sounds any good, that is.

But really, a 57 and a 610 are a good match for guitar, I question the amp and the room after that, I suppose.

I always take a DI, too, just for reamping. I'll often blend the reamped track ever so slightly into original, with an amp or effect just to fill in what's missing on the original. Like if I wanted more low mids, I'll dial in a chunky amp, get that sounding mean then feed it baaaarely into the original miked cabinet. Often works better than phasey EQ.

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Message 11/16 17-Mar-06 @ 05:23 AM - RE: recording guitar

psylichon

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and another in the "sorry i didn't think of it" category... you can put a 414 right up on the grill with a 57 with a 10 or 20 dB pad on no problem. You won't damage it... it can take the SPL's.

that is... how loud were you tracking?

and were you panning the close and far mic? Why?

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Message 12/16 20-Mar-06 @ 11:57 PM - RE: recording guitar

urbicide

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I could not use the 610 unfortunately... there is a ground hum problem with my power outlets or something is wrong with the 610... I get a low, 50 - 60 hz hum whenever I plug the 610 in. I need to check the wiring inside the location or figure out why I'm getting the hum with only the 610.

The room sounds good. Real vibrant sound. The C-414 sounds great. Room mic or acoustic guitar, it works great. I didnt get any great results from recording electric guitar tho. Even in a smaller room.

The reamp thing you suggests sounds interesting... a lot of extra work. I'd rather get all the product when recording it. Avoids mucking around while tracking. Which slows me down. Do you do this as post-production or tracking?

Recording electric seems to require a great amount of expertise. I couldnt imagine how long it takes to understand the relationship of microphones, amp, distance, etc, when recording. I honestly beleive a condenser/ribbon mic will give me the sound to blend with the sm57. I think I could get the better sound by having say: 4 mics to work with... blending, etc...

The 7-string is very low... a low A on the 7 string almost sounds like muddy-ass through a SM57 without eq'ing. The 57 did work but I feel the condenser mic would bring out the 7-string. I couldnt imagine what a warm old Neumann would sound like.

on the panning question: I set the mics up, as if I was miking a stereo kit or just in stereo. If it sounds good in stereo, it should sound okay in mono. I multitracked (2 tracks) into one mono. Hence I'll have to do this a little different next time. As I had phase issues with the 57/c414 combo!

Anyhow, I relistened to the track and I liked the result I got... very dark. the growl. I wish the 610 was thrown into the mix, but the hum was too apparent with distortion.

It's been fun.

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Message 13/16 22-Mar-06 @ 02:03 AM - RE: recording guitar

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was playing our bassists seven string today. He's got an Epiphone 7 string les-paul (!) didnt even know such a thing existed!. He's also got a Sunn rig.. all valve.. which is humungously large and 'rock looking'

it's got asn interesting sound. He's got it going thru an orange 4x12 at the moment - we're going to d some recording at some point cos i just built the system for him. and we're going to do a tutorial session or two to get him into the swing of multitracking with Logic... should be fun

cor i tell you... you wanna see this system i built him man... he spent some cash and it is so flippin quiet! even with optional 2 case fans running it's a whisper (and the room it's in has no absorbing carpet to mask the noise. it's solid basement tiled floor & plaster walls) He just added a 17" LG screen today and the whole system inc keyboard is silver & black ..lol.. it does look well cool.. that screen btw is fantastic.. really nice and has a simple step-thru button to switch display 'types' - 'night-text' is one.. and it flattens the contrast and brightness down to a level so that reading txt on a white page doesnt bore holes into your sockets in a dimly lit viewing environment... cool! - so there's 'profile' steps for various vonditions like that which u can step thru. I got it running at 1280 x 1024 75 hz and it looks loverly. I think it's 8ms response time.. dot isnt mega high but the image is really good for a cheap screen - i think he paid 160 ish at PC World.

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Message 14/16 22-Mar-06 @ 04:36 PM - RE: recording guitar

urbicide

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wicked man!

I've never heard of a 7-String bass either; 7-string guitar only. Whats it play like? Can u play chords on it?

Sounds like a nice rig. What will you be recording it with? Sounds fun.

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Message 15/16 22-Mar-06 @ 08:31 PM - RE: recording guitar

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no no... he's bassist in the band i'm in but he's primarily a guitarist... the 7 string is a guitar.. not bass

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Message 16/16 23-Mar-06 @ 06:55 PM - RE: recording guitar

urbicide

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ahh I see : -)

the Les Paul is very popular for studio work. It almost, definitley has the best 7-string sound.

Never heard of the Epiphone version.

badass: http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Guitar/Electric?sku=517675

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