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Forums - Mixing & FX
Subject: I know I suck at mixing
Viewing all 14 messages - View by pages of 10: 1 2
Original Message 1/14 20-May-06 @ 09:28 AM - I know I suck at mixing
But the point is that I've learnt something like a new technique in the process. Well, at least it was new to me.
For a start, there is a 180+ BPM track with lots of synths and drum patterns going on, that has almost no reverb/delay added, and the levels seem right, still it sounds pretty overcrowded. Part of the problem is the high tempo, but also are the rich textures of thesounds I've chosen. And while I did my best with eq-ing out the unwanted and / or unneeded frequencies per channel, it is more balanced now, but still overcrowded.
Now what I realised, that in this situation it is very hard to EQ down unwanted things any further, because almost all channels must be adjusted a little bit, and adjusting one single channel a little bit while everything is turned on produces very subtle results that are imposible to hear (to my lousy ears :-). So the only way to go forward is to listen to each channel in isolation and try to figure out what frequency bands are still unnecesary. And of course, an isolated channel sounds perfectly all right on its own...
Now everybody talks about one should never mix/eq with a "mastering" compressor/limiter inserted into the master. But eventually that could come really handy when trying to figure out what's wrong with one single channel. So I fired up digitalfishphones's endorphin, cranked up the compression and limiting, and looked at each individual channel. And with these "irrealistic settings" it was clear that there is still some deep rumbling and resonant peak to remove from almost every channel.
Now I'm sure this is absolutely no holy grail of mixing
, but well, if you know better, tell me! 
Message 2/14 20-May-06 @ 09:50 AM - RE: I know I suck at mixing
Frequency
Level
Spaceial placement
and you can use those 3 primary things to create mixes. Forget fx for the moment because if it doesnt sound right without fx it aint going to sound right with fx, worse probably cos many fx simply amplify the problem.
however, there is another phenomenon which is the way 2 or more sound interact to create sympathetic harmonics and other effects, and often the problem with mixing is that 2 things you begin with sound great, but dont seem to work so good when you add in other stuff... somehow you gotta work thru all that
anyways in the most basic scenario, you have a kik & bass.... if each is allowed full freq they will counter each other, muddying frequencies of each other, so in a basic way you can take a kik & bass and for example lo-cu the kik at around 60hz for example, this gives the bass (assuming it's a LO bass sound) the space below the kik from 60hz down to say 40hz where your mix tails off in terms of frequencies your speakers can reproduce (or the limits of the actual plugin or hardware units usuable range)
ok, then you can go down the bass with a cutting filter and sweep the frequencies from say 200hz down to 80hz, and see how that allows the kik a space to push thru
in that way, using the old rule of utilising eq to CUT rather than Boost all the time, you can creaqte frequency spaces wich suits the 2 items.
then you have spacial stuff, panning in the ordinary sense and stereo panning fx where you delay a sound by a few MS and send the delayed signal one side and the non-delayed signal the other side and it creates a wide spread allowing room for your non directional sounds to sit in the middle
I'd say it's good to work on mixes with no fx... try and get them sounding good as basic mixes without fx. and remember the room/speakers must be ok or all sorts of possible audio anomilies can make a mix sound bad and it's just the room/speaker setup causing the messyness & lack of defination
lastly, a mix doesnt have to allow all items to be heard clearly to work properly. Sometimes some items will NOT be heard so clearly, but they are working in the mix to create the whole sound, so dont be obsessed with clarity of all components, that's a big noob mistake.
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I had an idea for a script once. It's basically Jaws except when the guys in the boat are going after Jaws, they look around and there's an even bigger Jaws. The guys have to team up with Jaws to get Bigger Jaws.... I call it... Big Jaws!!!
Message 3/14 20-May-06 @ 10:10 AM - RE: I know I suck at mixing
Message 4/14 20-May-06 @ 11:16 AM Edit: 21-May-06 | 12:56 PM - RE: I know I suck at mixing
) but the rest sounds better now. Thing is, it was a lot of work to come to this sound, and still I feel it is not good enough. I use a lot of effects, but I try to limit the bandwith of each and every channel as much as I can.
I decided that the kick should get more bottom end, so I've put a highpass filter on th bass at 114 Hz.
Message 5/14 03-Jun-06 @ 04:40 PM - RE: I know I suck at mixing
how i do things, is be absolutely brutal with your parts - i generally have my track with a sort of
5-7 band breakdown in my head, and i stick to this with what im mixing.
ie - say a pad , top and airy thats running over the track - like you say, you solo it and its sound
nice and full on its own, but think about the track in context and what you want the this pad part
to say frequency wise in the over all context of the track. So kill off those lower bands , take no
prisoners. Youll probably screw your face up at how much youve taken off and how much it now
sounds not as rich, but when you unsolo the track it will now 'fit' its context to the rest of the
track.
Do this for every piece/part (drums, perc, pads, basses, vocals, and so on)( show contempt to
the frequencys! ) and by the end youll have a pretty solid, 'correct', if somewhat plastically track
to work with. You can then go back to each bit in the mix (not solod) and gentlly add back a
slope of frequencys to the mix for each part to add a richness ( although nothing like as rich and
sonically pleasing as your brain imagines they should be) You should get a pretty good grasp of
this after 2 or 3 tracks, and it will become second nature to let your ego go and start thinking in
context ( your the player in every part here, think about how the drummer always wrongly wants
his drums the loudest, the guitarist always wrongly wants there vocals eq'd brighter etc )
Compression thereafter , i work in a simlar way, only through thinking of fatness, evenness,
loudness, and
percussiveness (envelope). But fundamentally, this eq technique should be the foundation of the
strongest tracks
Alan
Message 6/14 03-Jun-06 @ 05:57 PM - RE: I know I suck at mixing
you might also insert hi and lo-pass filters on each track and cut down on the bandwidth. it might give you a feel for what the usable range of each instrument is. well, its a part of what Blu said anyway...
Message 7/14 04-Jun-06 @ 12:12 AM - RE: I know I suck at mixing
You can't mix things that don't belong together.
If you need all the parts, I would then ask how much individual compression you're doing on the tracks? Compression will bring an urgency to the sound that can easily be overdone. With improper settings, it will drag down a high-tempo song and it can really change the feel so use compression carefully.
Message 8/14 04-Jun-06 @ 11:05 AM - RE: I know I suck at mixing
"If you've EQ'd all the parts of a song to the best of your ability and are still having trouble mixing them together without confusion, perhaps there are just too many parts in the song."
Agreed. But it is really hard to tell when you are the one who preapred those parts, and you really think each of those have their roles in the song.
Also, I tend to work in a fashion that I compose and mix at the same time, so the evolution of the soundscape and the song happens at the same time. The problem is that at the end, I still want to improve it a little bit more (soundwise), and at that time it is really hard to find what part / frequency band should be removed for good. (And then comes the soloing/thinking part: "do I really need this 100 hz rumble in this pad, does it add anything to the whole?"). On this account, I tend to use Blu's technique often.
"You can't mix things that don't belong together."
Very true, and I have this conflict all the time. I guess it is my interpretation of "experimental" when at the end I have things that doesn't work together and I still have to force them to work together. Call me a masochist
(Ok, at least I don't have 3 rhodes parts, hehhh
)" I would then ask how much individual compression you're doing on the tracks?"
Almost nothing, only a little on the FM7 stuff (that badly needs it) and sometimes on the bass (the drums are saturated to hell though.) I prefer playing around with the levels, and mostly do multiband compression during "mastering", but only to bring a little "conformity" over the whole mix, with low ratios (~2:1). (Somehow I don't like how compressors affect my individual tracks, at the end I almost always turn them off, or use mild saturation when something has too much dynamics and it sounds disturbing).
Message 9/14 13-Jun-06 @ 10:20 PM - RE: I know I suck at mixing
Also, I like to mix months later after I record parts. It's hard to trick my ears in hearing it like it is, when some times it's not. it could help.
oh and compression should only used when you need it. Dont just put it on there b/c it sounds louder and better. A person who master tracks knows what to do in the end. Use it like an effect.
ie: the guitarist wants his track to sound pickier (more rhythym with a pick), say attack... u know what to do then.
Message 10/14 14-Jun-06 @ 03:07 AM - RE: I know I suck at mixing
so dont be obsessed with clarity of all components, that's a big noob mistake.
I think i'm getting this one tatooed backwards on my forehead
Message 11/14 14-Jun-06 @ 11:43 AM - RE: I know I suck at mixing
___________________________________
I had an idea for a script once. It's basically Jaws except when the guys in the boat are going after Jaws, they look around and there's an even bigger Jaws. The guys have to team up with Jaws to get Bigger Jaws.... I call it... Big Jaws!!!
Message 12/14 09-Jul-06 @ 08:41 PM - RE: I know I suck at mixing
[image file]
Well ive been here for 10 years and enjoy everyones advice, interesting to see how we all gain
more knowledge and share it, but if all else fails you could drink enough beer to end up like this
hmmmmm.
Malk
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"The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side." Hunter S.Thompson -
Message 13/14 11-Jul-06 @ 08:48 AM - RE: I know I suck at mixing
___________________________________
I had an idea for a script once. It's basically Jaws except when the guys in the boat are going after Jaws, they look around and there's an even bigger Jaws. The guys have to team up with Jaws to get Bigger Jaws.... I call it... Big Jaws!!!
Message 14/14 31-Aug-06 @ 09:40 PM - RE: I know I suck at mixing
psylichon wrote:You cant mix things that dont belong together
i'm getting this bit tatooed on my butt
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