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Subject: Why is digital less warm than....
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Original Message Date: 28-Feb-02 @ 09:02 PM - Why is digital less warm than....
We all hear things like, digital isn't as warm as analog, and while I'm not here to argue that specifically, did you ever think about why that is? Outside of some of the basic physical properties, you'd think the two mediums wouldn't be that divergent.... and in some sense, maybe they're not. Now I'm gonna try a little heresy...
Maybe the reason mixes from analog sounds warmer, more musical, whatever, is: our techniques for recording, mixing, etc., are mostly built and modeled on analog experience. We've learned techniques for, say mic placement, that were establised in the analog realm... maybe we should be evaluating new ways of doing things....?
I mean think about one of the most basic differences between the two mediums, the level meter... Many of us that came from the analog world were sorely surprised to find out we couldn't push the LEDs "past the red" on a digital board... Now once I learned how to use digital LEDs, mt life, and my mixes, sounded better...
I'm not really trying to lay out new "rules" of digital recording/mixing, but just bouncing the idea off you all. If you have any experience with what I'm on about here, by all means share it. If you got a "warm sound" from all digital equipment, what was your methodology? Why do you think it worked that way? If you captured a digital take of a vocalist that just simply shimmers, did you do it the "traditional" (i.e., basically as it's always been done on analog equipment) way, or did you find a technique that is exclusive to digital?
Anyhoos, just some thoughts....
Peace All
Message 51/157 11-Mar-02 @ 01:03 AM - RE: Why is digital less warm than....
It's a lot like the analog vs digital synth debate, most times such arguments are started by folk claiming digital is just as good, and it's pretty much impossible to tell in a good mix anyway... Well, digital IS just as good, if you add in the flexibility of saving patches, MIDI control, etc., etc. But if you simply compare an analog SH101 with ANY of Rolands sampled SH101 ROM sounds found on their MC or XP line, you can instantly tell a difference in the sound. My own like for analogs doesn't really come from a sound preference though, in a mix I really can't tell much difference either. What I like about the analogs is their built in frequecy spectrum (or, as Pongoid pointed out, maybe it's the lack of frequency...). I spend a lot less time fattening up the sound, whether I do it with synthesis or EQ, when I use analog based gear over digital... in effect, I'm a lazy MF that prefers to have the sound be right from the get go... less work for me...=)
Now why is it that I think analog is easier? Well, I'm certain there's a good scientific reason, but mostly it has to do with the popularity of analog type sound. If I wasn't going after that sound, I wouldn't bother trying to make it sound like analog... Hence, if yer after analog, use analog. it's just easier... what a fugging concept, eh?
What I do find funny is when some folk get their first piece of analog gear, and then they sell it after a month cos "it was too hard to get the right sound with it..." No shit... can't just dial up Trance Lead 004 or whatnot, eh?
That's also somethin' that gets me about folks starin' out that are ready to drop a couple of grand on their first bits of gear. Most of 'em generally get one decent multi synth/workstation and maybe an FX unit or two.... Why? I mean there's nothing wrong with these boxes, they do what they're made to do.... But for the same amount of money you could get a DX box, an SH101 (or even two), a Juno of some sort, and say a decent drumbox like a Jomox or sumpin. Hell you could probably even afford a real 909 if you shopped about.... add in a couple compressors and cheap multi FX bits, and for around the same price you got a pretty well fleshed all "all-analog" kit.... Then you got that "analog sound" by default... It still dunna mean you can make a track that will get folks to shake their booty, but if yer after analog sound, why not get it from analog gear? Seems like that concept gets missed by a lot of people.... Should be obvious you'd think... hmmmm gettin' old and out of touch I guess...
Peace All
Message 52/157 11-Mar-02 @ 04:54 PM - RE: Why is digital less warm than....
I love didital and I am not going back.
Message 53/157 11-Mar-02 @ 11:15 PM - RE: Why is digital less warm than....
As for an analog guru telling the difference, I dunno. You might be surprised. Different vein of things, but I've heard engineers talk about what preamp, amp, mic, compressor, etc., someone used, just from listening to the finished mix, so I suspect someone with enough knowledge of analog synths could also tell if something wasn't analog, especially in a non-mixed a/b setup...
Just some thoughts....
Peace
Message 54/157 11-Mar-02 @ 11:48 PM - RE: Why is digital less warm than....
Hell, ya know, times are changing (they always are), so just because analog dominated in the past doth not mean it will always be so. There will, methinks, always be a place for analog gear, in the same way there'll always be a place for a real piano, guitar, etc....
I'd just like to have a "vocalist in a box." If I could just replace those critters with a good multi-box, I'd be much happier...=)
Peace
Message 55/157 12-Mar-02 @ 12:04 AM - RE: Why is digital less warm than....
Message 56/157 12-Mar-02 @ 12:29 AM - RE: Why is digital less warm than....
"heard engineers talk about what preamp, amp, mic, compressor, etc., someone used, just from listening to the finished mix"
BULLSHIT. I find that impossible to believe. I am pretty much convinced that anyone who tries that is just plain full of shit
maybe in 1958, but NOW? no fucking way.
Message 57/157 12-Mar-02 @ 12:55 AM - RE: Why is digital less warm than....
Had it a week and was like "this aint a 303". And my bass station sounded nothing like a 303 and I didn't know how to sequence it to emulate one. So I started realizing i should have just bought a sampler, i could have sampled rebirth like I ended up doing much later on which yeilds some pretty authentic lines when you sequence right using velocity for accent and slides. I have digressed here but I am totally in agreement, that if you want a sound go and buy that not an imitation, and if you are entering in new , a good workstation can't be beat. Even if i had bought a trinity with the sampler I would have gotten further in my production. This is why i recomend Reason to newbies as it gives them all kinds of sounds in one central workstation to develop there skills and then later they can add to the complexity when they add Cubase through Rewrie and midi gear. I think everyone will be amazed to hear the two new tracks i have done in Reason. I do have all my other gear back on line now as well, so i may play with the juno, mks 80, or even my syntechno, but the meat and potatoes will be reason and Halion. Just Orange Vocoder too, so my digitech might get jealouse. see you guys tomorow. I am taking hte night off. i have been doing to much music and my sleep is all out of whack.
Message 58/157 12-Mar-02 @ 01:24 AM - RE: Why is digital less warm than....
1)get off the meth
2)hit RETURN every once in a while?
believe it or not but I read what you type (notice I havent said SHIT about your horrible spelling in a while) but...ever heard of a run-on sentence, or PARAGRAPH even?
sheesh
Message 59/157 12-Mar-02 @ 02:21 AM - RE: Why is digital less warm than....
Brett - uh, I think I agree with what you're saying, at least in concept... course I may have missed the point... In any case, I would say an analog or two and a sampler or two, would certainly sort a lot of folk who want an analog sound. It's what I do for me live stuff that I want to be "analogish." Sure beats the hell out of trying to transport the DSS and what not...
Peace
Message 60/157 12-Mar-02 @ 02:33 AM - RE: Why is digital less warm than....
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